Live data from Hacker News

If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

jasonbock.substack.com

21–30 of 69 posts

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#21

Very off-topic, but there's something very odd on that page. There's these meta tags: Then, the body contains: Dominate The Male Enhancement Niche Today with Aizen Power Looks like a link to a really sleazy ad, but the name of the product is put into metadata seemingly to improve its SEO.

.

Edit: might be a one off.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#22
post #9

Unfortunately, this is the type of interview you get when you don’t do the god awful LC kind. I personally like the untimed take home + a conversation about the job. It’s not difficult to come up with a take home which can’t be “cheated” easily, and as a candidate I can look at the take home and decide at some point I don’t want the job that much.

I worked at a place where we'd sometimes give take homes, but only for roles where we were hiring outside of their experience. Oh, you think you can learn tech XYZ even though it isn't on your resume? Ok, take a test that a novice in that area could pass fairly easily.

You don't even have to pass, just explain what you tried and what your reasoning was. A few syntax errors and a directionally correct attempt are fine.

We got a few good candidates that way, and I think we also filtered out some bad ones. Probably filtered out a few good ones too, though, tbh.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#23
Because there is no skin in the game.

A C# programmer can write Java, but it might take them 3 months to be as fast as an already Java experienced programmer.

And a coder can leave at any time. There is no long termism unfortunately.

So this is the equivalent of not wanting to hire someone who has only been a waiter as barstaff or vice versa, and not wanting to train them, when people are changing job every 6 months.

Google can't afford to be like this, with all their systems no one else uses!

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#24

Very off-topic, but there's something very odd on that page. There's these meta tags: Then, the body contains: Dominate The Male Enhancement Niche Today with Aizen Power Looks like a link to a really sleazy ad, but the name of the product is put into metadata seemingly to improve its SEO.

. Edit: might be a one off.

Do you know if these ads are injected or if the authors are doing this? This is really gross.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#25
post #6

This seems like only 1 aspect of what's broken now. Interviewer: First, congratulations, out of the 13000 applications we received, our AI selected yours for further consideration. Now please take this test on the chemistry of lignin, and it's reactions. If you don't hear back with your results, it's because we decided not to persue a relationship at this time... After the test, we will ask you to build a mock tudor…

If only this were hyperbole. I once interviewed with a startup whose process was: 1. Pass TripleByte (already puts you in top whatever percentage of SWEs) 2. Meet with 4 members of the company for an hour each, and if they all like you: 3. Create a 15 minute presentation on some code you worked on. It can be code from a current or past job, but that will probably reflect poorly on you, so go build something so you ca…

> For those curious, #4, my presentation was about how I reverse engineered the Robinhood API, spoofed requests to get around their “security”

This was probably against their TOS and even if not, trying to bypass security measures, no matter how weak, is unethical behavior, and possibly illegal.

That would be a red flag in an hiring scenario since you were essentially bragging about breaking the law.

Unless Robinhood had a bug bounty/responsible disclosure kind of program and you were fully acting within its limit, but your comment did not sound like it.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#26
post #9

Unfortunately, this is the type of interview you get when you don’t do the god awful LC kind. I personally like the untimed take home + a conversation about the job. It’s not difficult to come up with a take home which can’t be “cheated” easily, and as a candidate I can look at the take home and decide at some point I don’t want the job that much.

I'll do a take home when you pay me my consulting rate to do it. Not interested in any company that isn't even going to take an hour of engineering time to give me a technical screen.

That's fair, the company spending real engineering time to interview you indicates that it is actually a real job and not a fake job.

On the other side, I find live coding interviews terrifying. I only got over it in the last year or so after having done enough of them to know that I'll get the answer most of the time - and the times I don't ... I just don't sweat. When you're early in your career, it can be tough to know what you'll be asked and whether you are actually prepared enough - this leads to a lot of wasted effort/fear.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#27
post #6

This seems like only 1 aspect of what's broken now. Interviewer: First, congratulations, out of the 13000 applications we received, our AI selected yours for further consideration. Now please take this test on the chemistry of lignin, and it's reactions. If you don't hear back with your results, it's because we decided not to persue a relationship at this time... After the test, we will ask you to build a mock tudor…

> our AI selected yours for further consideration.

GitHub now asks if you consent to AI review of your application. It doesn't say if not allowing AI review affects candidacy. Should we be writing resumes and cover letters to AIs?

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only this were hyperbole. I once interviewed with a startup whose process was: 1. Pass TripleByte (already puts you in top whatever percentage of SWEs) 2. Meet with 4 members of the company for an hour each, and if they all like you: 3. Create a 15 minute presentation on some code you worked on. It can be code from a current or past job, but that will probably reflect poorly on you, so go build something so you ca…

> For those curious, #4, my presentation was about how I reverse engineered the Robinhood API, spoofed requests to get around their “security” This was probably against their TOS and even if not, trying to bypass security measures, no matter how weak, is unethical behavior, and possibly illegal. That would be a red flag in an hiring scenario since you were essentially bragging about breaking the law. Unless Robinhood…

It's not "security" in the hacking sense. Perhaps that was a poor word choice. So when you hit an API, the server can reject your request for any reason, typically a malformed request. Maybe a header it's expecting is missing, or the API key is invalid, something like that. With Robinhood's API, you can't simply provide your bearer token and hit the endpoint. There are MANY headers it is expecting, and if any are missing or incorrect, you'll get a 4xx response.

Otherwise, breaking ToS is akin to jaywalking and anybody who sees a side project like this, and their takeaway is "wow they broke ToS" doesn't deserve to be hiring software engineers, and certainly doesn't deserve to be putting them through the ringer such that the first bar to pass is literally Triplebyte (RIP Triplebyte).

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#29

Insane. I could consistently sit in a room with a candidate for an hour, and at the end describe which positions they could handle, which would be a stretch, and which would be a fiasco. I ended up being a bit of a candidate whisperer. But the truth is simply that if you speak clearly and listen closely, you'll learn more than enough in an hour. All this madness is to avoid developing these important skills. It's sad…

Agreed, i spend a couple minutes verifying their resume through fizz buzz type questions. Then figure out how they react when they don’t know something. Make sure they can collaborate. At this point you get a decent idea of how that person fits, or doesn’t. It really only takes 20 minutes of tech questions and 10 of shooting the shit. Pro-tip for getting hired with most interviewers is to get them to do most of the talking and parrot back what they say they want.
Post reply on HN