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BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

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Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#221

Post by gambiting »

buran77 wrote: post #213
gambiting wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in the US. In Europe my Volvo doesn't require premium 98 octane , regular 95 is fine. I appreciate the calculation but I don't know why you're trying so hard to escape the fact that the BYD needs 40kWh more(!!!!!) to travel the same distance(combined with 75 litres of petrol) - it's not hard to see that(as I said 70 comments ago) the BYD is a heavier and less efficient car. There isn't much to argue with here…

Your logic is still... lacking. I don't say it lightly but it might be the worst case of obtuseness I've seen in many years of HN. You mix and match units when calculating a ratio of efficiency and it gets you meaningless conclusions. By your "logic" a Tesla M3, a leader in electric efficiency, is the worst of the bunch. It needs ~100kWh of electricity to drive the same 1000km distance. And ICE cars can do that trip…

Ignore the whole Volvo Vs BYD bit for a second.

Car A: needs 75 litres + 10kWh of electricity to cover 1000km

Car B: needs 75 litres + 50kWh of electricity to cover 1000km.

Even a child could point out which car is more efficient, as it needs less energy to travel the same distance. Am I wrong about this? If yes, please tell me how, I'm genuinely listening.

>>It makes no sense other than for you to feel good about your car.

I was trying to make a point that another large and mostly pointless SUV can do the same distance, using the same amount of fuel, and LESS electricity. That's literally all. I could also point out how either of those cars is idiotic, because as you said, a diesel version of the same car will use less fuel and no electricity. I used my own car as an example of a car that is also a "bad" example of efficiency.

I apologize if that wasn't obvious, but man, you really got hung up on this.

>>So why did you pay anywhere between 15k-45k EUR more to have a "compliance car" hybrid

In case you are genuinely interested and not just trolling - because in my use case I'm within the EV only range nearly every day, and my long term petrol usage average over 50kkm is 2.1L/100km.

>>But your car needs 10-11kWh to drive ideally a pathetic 30km (!)

It doesn't, but I don't see any point in explaining to you how my own car works, nor was it a point of my entire comment.

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#222

Post by gambiting »

manmal wrote: post #220
gambiting wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both cars are plug in hybrids - you need to charge them externally to get the most out of them. BYD needs literally 5x the electricity of the Volvo(50kWh Vs 10kWh) for the same range, so the owner is definitely going to notice it on their energy bill.

The old XC60 can do 50km on 9.1kWh of battery - that’s 18kWh per 100km - IMO that’s super optimistic for an SUV of that size (and assumes no heating, AC, lights etc), but let’s assume it holds. The BYD can do 180km on a 50kWh battery, that’s 28kWh per 100km. How did you arrive at 5x worse? It’s not even 2x worse. And again, I don’t buy the 50km claim from Volvo, outside of perfect conditions (eg daytime in May, no ra…

I have done 52km in the past before the ICE kicked in(in perfect conditons, but yes).

>>How did you arrive at 5x worse

You have two cars, they both are fully charged and fueled up. They both drive 1000km and then stop. They both burnt 75 litres of petrol, but one used 10kWh of electricity, the other used 50kWh of electricity.

How much more electricity has the second car used Vs the first one?

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#223

Post by manmal »

gambiting wrote: post #222
manmal wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old XC60 can do 50km on 9.1kWh of battery - that’s 18kWh per 100km - IMO that’s super optimistic for an SUV of that size (and assumes no heating, AC, lights etc), but let’s assume it holds. The BYD can do 180km on a 50kWh battery, that’s 28kWh per 100km. How did you arrive at 5x worse? It’s not even 2x worse. And again, I don’t buy the 50km claim from Volvo, outside of perfect conditions (eg daytime in May, no ra…

I have done 52km in the past before the ICE kicked in(in perfect conditons, but yes). >>How did you arrive at 5x worse You have two cars, they both are fully charged and fueled up. They both drive 1000km and then stop. They both burnt 75 litres of petrol, but one used 10kWh of electricity, the other used 50kWh of electricity. How much more electricity has the second car used Vs the first one?

Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required. Also, the fact that the BYD is 5x more electricity costs is almost irrelevant for a 1k km trip, because there‘s just an $8 difference for the whole trip, assuming $0.2 per kWh.

On shorter trips, the BYD will come out on top because it can go on battery for way longer, which is (even at 27kWh/100km) cheaper than the Volvo on gasoline/Diesel.

The charging functionality is just a bonus for hybrids (I doubt many people drive a big part of their mileage electric by plugging in). Primarily, the battery serves to conserve energy while decelerating. The BYD obviously also uses the battery as a buffer for its range extender, but the Volvo doesn’t do that.

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#224

Post by gambiting »

manmal wrote: post #223
gambiting wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done 52km in the past before the ICE kicked in(in perfect conditons, but yes). >>How did you arrive at 5x worse You have two cars, they both are fully charged and fueled up. They both drive 1000km and then stop. They both burnt 75 litres of petrol, but one used 10kWh of electricity, the other used 50kWh of electricity. How much more electricity has the second car used Vs the first one?

Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required. Also, the fact that the BYD is 5x more electricity costs is almost irrelevant for a 1k km trip, because there‘s just an $8 difference for the whole trip, assuming $0.2 per kWh. On shorter trips, the BYD will come out on top because it can go on battery for way longer, which is (even at 27kWh/100km) cheaper than the Volvo on gas…

>>Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required

No, I'm literally going off what the manufacturer said - 1000km range when the battery charge and fuel tank are combined. That's it.

People keep making comparisons for shorter trips, for driving with an empty battery, for driving on battery range only etc etc etc - all of it misses the point I'm making.

>>I doubt many people drive a big part of their mileage electric by plugging in).

If they don't, then why buy a PHEV at all? If you have a PHEV and never plug it in, then your efficiency will be worse than that of a simple MHEV or even a straight up ICE-only car.

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#225

Post by cyberax »

belltaco wrote: post #184
cyberax wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, BS. Unions almost never reveal the number of striking employees. > and recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying their power play of striking. It's not "power play", it's business as usual that Tesla wants to upend.

> Unions almost never reveal the number of striking employees Why don't they? > It's not "power play", it's business as usual that Tesla wants to upend Tesla has been selling and servicing cars in Sweden from almost 10 years, it was business as usual till the union decided to strike.

> Why don't they?

To not paint a target on striking employees in case of small strikes.

> Tesla has been selling and servicing cars in Sweden from almost 10 years, it was business as usual till the union decided to strike.

The union has been trying to negotiate with Tesla during that period.

Sweden traditionally has very weak labor laws, there is not even a minimum wage. Instead, Sweden relies on strong unions, with more than 70% of employees in unions. There are unwritten rules on how businesses should behave, but Tesla just decided to ignore them.

It was OK while Tesla was still a small scrappy startup, but they're not anymore.

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#228

Post by [deleted] »

gambiting wrote: post #224
manmal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required. Also, the fact that the BYD is 5x more electricity costs is almost irrelevant for a 1k km trip, because there‘s just an $8 difference for the whole trip, assuming $0.2 per kWh. On shorter trips, the BYD will come out on top because it can go on battery for way longer, which is (even at 27kWh/100km) cheaper than the Volvo on gas…

>>Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required No, I'm literally going off what the manufacturer said - 1000km range when the battery charge and fuel tank are combined. That's it. People keep making comparisons for shorter trips, for driving with an empty battery, for driving on battery range only etc etc etc - all of it misses the point I'm making. >>I doubt many people d…

[deleted]

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#229

Post by manmal »

gambiting wrote: post #224
manmal wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required. Also, the fact that the BYD is 5x more electricity costs is almost irrelevant for a 1k km trip, because there‘s just an $8 difference for the whole trip, assuming $0.2 per kWh. On shorter trips, the BYD will come out on top because it can go on battery for way longer, which is (even at 27kWh/100km) cheaper than the Volvo on gas…

>>Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required No, I'm literally going off what the manufacturer said - 1000km range when the battery charge and fuel tank are combined. That's it. People keep making comparisons for shorter trips, for driving with an empty battery, for driving on battery range only etc etc etc - all of it misses the point I'm making. >>I doubt many people d…

> That's it.

We can’t compare the full 1k to 1k km yet because EPA ratings aren’t out - the BYD might as well make 100km more than the Volvo with 75L.

> If they don't, then why buy a PHEV at all?

Subsidies + CO2 ratings (important for EU).

PHEV is a green washing ploy IMO. Plugging in every day is hard enough as it is, I’ve had a fully electric Ioniq for 3 years. I don’t believe many people will do that for just 36 miles (20 in winter), every day. A big chunk of owners don’t even have the infrastructure to charge daily. With an EV you are also often forced to look for destination charging, but with an PHEV it’s perfectly fine to skip that - and people do.

Re: BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and sail 3km/h

#230

Post by yial »

raisedbyninjas wrote: post #64
yial wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like it uses the wheels and tires to provide slight control and speed.

So if there is any wind at all, your luxury SUV is just going to get blown around wherever the wind blows. I've personally never been to a lake with no wind. Maybe it's useful foolishly ford a washed washed out road and get swept down-river.

I don’t disagree with you. Where I grew up there was a steel grated metal bridge. It would flood. Constantly someone in a truck would try to drive over, get swept against the guard rail, and have to be rescued by the local fire department. Eventually they just started sitting there in a truck whenever it flooded to prevent people from trying it. (It was a rural area… drive around those bridge closed signs ).
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