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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#771

Post by FridgeSeal »

game_the0ry wrote: post #482

The only remedy at this point is to hold executives financially and morally culpable. Anyone opposed to seeing the entire C-suite and board of directors having their bonuses clawed back and sent to jail? I'm not. Let the guillotine come out, I want to see heads roll.

Don’t just pierce the corporate veil, shred it.

It’s been used to escape responsibility and shirk transparency entirely too much, and if orgs can’t be trusted with it (as they evidently cannot) then they don’t deserve to have it.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#772

Post by TylerE »

bmitc wrote: post #753
TylerE wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Airplanes are literally hundreds of times less likely to kill you per mile than cars. There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009.

Airplanes are inherently much, much less reliable than cars and only reach reliability through however many millions or billions of dollars worth of redundant systems and maintenance intervals and however many man-hours. That means that when you get on an airplane, you are extremely reliant on those systems and processes having been followed. We are seeing more and more that these systems and processes have been brea…

Plane Operated by a US Airline != Plane Manufactured in the US

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#773

Post by einpoklum »

Havoc wrote: post #389
einpoklum wrote: post #253

I realize it might not be fair to ask right at this moment, but: How come Boeing hasn't produced a clean-sheet-design replacement for the 737, despite its extreme age? I mean, since its design, the 747, 757 and 767 have come and gone, variants and all, no production continuing. Why the endless adaptations of this old thing: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Boeing_7... ?

>clean-sheet-design Won't help if there are issues at each step. Design, manufacturing, certification, pilot training, "self-certification" etc. Even if they start from scratch - until they fix their corporate culture the outcomes will stay the same.

It seems that many of the issues - certainly the MCAS thing - stem from the desire to hold on to it still being a 737. Point taken about the corporate culture though.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#774

Post by dang »

game_the0ry wrote: post #482

The only remedy at this point is to hold executives financially and morally culpable. Anyone opposed to seeing the entire C-suite and board of directors having their bonuses clawed back and sent to jail? I'm not. Let the guillotine come out, I want to see heads roll.

Please don't post clichés of internet indignation to Hacker News. It leads to repetitive subthreads, as in this case. That's the opposite of the curious conversation we're trying for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#775

Post by mcmoor »

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #612
rootusrootus wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it's not an apples-to-apple comparison. If you compare by miles, then flying wins by a lot. If you compare by hour, it's much closer (though I'm pretty sure flying still wins, yes).

Only commercial. If you add in General Aviation with some random poorly maintained Cessnas from the 70s piloted by some randoms in their 70s then it's a completely different picture.

I've heard that private aviation and private driving have comparable accident rate, which makes sense. Now I wonder how's the rate of both public transportation.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#776

Post by cf1241290841 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #492
game_the0ry wrote: post #482

The only remedy at this point is to hold executives financially and morally culpable. Anyone opposed to seeing the entire C-suite and board of directors having their bonuses clawed back and sent to jail? I'm not. Let the guillotine come out, I want to see heads roll.

Sounds like a great way to create an airplane company that no competent people will want to run. Might want to think through the game-theoretic consequences a bit further. For example, instead of ranting and howling about prisons and guillotines, you could point to some successful examples of other companies or orgs that have operated in a similar fashion. That might provide more productive grounds for further discus…

Premeditation is the important aspect to look at i believe. It was possible to get prosecutors involved in the VW emission scandal.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#777

Post by cf1241290841 »

habinero wrote: post #720
Exuma wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any undercover advice for Airlines or plane models to avoid? When you book at ticket is there anything you just won't fly knowing what you know?

Commercial aviation is ridiculously safe and well-regulated. Worry about the ride to the airport instead. You're far more likely to die in a private plane or in an executive jet. GA aircraft crash constantly.

Providing an negative economic incentive for bad actors is still a good idea.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#778

Post by Roark66 »

bmitc wrote: post #753
TylerE wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Airplanes are literally hundreds of times less likely to kill you per mile than cars. There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009.

Airplanes are inherently much, much less reliable than cars and only reach reliability through however many millions or billions of dollars worth of redundant systems and maintenance intervals and however many man-hours. That means that when you get on an airplane, you are extremely reliant on those systems and processes having been followed. We are seeing more and more that these systems and processes have been brea…

And that is why I think it is absolutely, mind bogglingly bonkers that Tesla is currently using "drive by wire" in a mass production car when this technology is not common in aviation at all. Only the huge airliners that benefit from extremely expensive maintenance schedules use full "fly by wire".

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#779

Post by jmkni »

tavavex wrote: post #451
ygvamjq2ol wrote: post #188

I flew a United MAX 9 last night, I was sitting in the window seat of a visible (Not plugged) emergency exit door. Landed a little while after this incident was reported. About an hour and a half before landing at SFO the pilot announced a hurried “Flight attendants check in” with no follow up announcement to the passengers. It was probably because of the turbulence we had been experiencing a few minutes before, but…

I feel like this is pretty unlikely - as far as I know, they don't really pass news bulletins and such to pilots, if it's not something that they need to know. Besides, even if some passenger found out, what could they even do?

> even if some passenger found out, what could they even do?

Panic and freak out?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#780

Post by [deleted] »

pkulak wrote: post #758
habinero wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement makes no sense. It has never been safer to fly, precisely because aviation is so dedicated to root cause analysis. A whole door exploded out of a plane and 1. The plane did not suffer structural damage and could land safely 2. Nobody died because seat belts are mandatory 3. The crew is drilled over and over on what to do 4. The plane has extensive monitoring and logging so RCA is easier 5. The US funds…

Yeah, not to be totally insensitive, but 45,000 Americans died on our roads last year and basically no one has even a single fuck to give about it. For some reason all we ever complain about is the only safe transportation system we have.

[deleted]
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