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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#671

Post by TylerE »

bmitc wrote: post #599
mattmaroon wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that you control your fate more when driving. Once the door shuts on the plane you have little ability to do anything other than get yourself arrested. That’s part of WHY air travel is safer.

I like to consider what is safer when something goes wromg . Are there statistics that track this across different modes of travel?

Yes. Airplanes are literally hundreds of times less likely to kill you per mile than cars. There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#672

Post by bobthepanda »

nimbius wrote: post #645
throwaway67743 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executives are personally liable for loss of life, regardless of the law it is morally contemptible to hide behind a corporation. Until people go to jail for manslaughter this will not change.

worth noting for no particular reason China had a baby formula scandal in 2008 that led to the death of four infants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal The Intermediate People's Court in Shijiazhuang sentenced a farmer, Zhang Yujun, and a senior manager, Geng Jinping, to death in 2009. five more people received life sentences and the main company behind it went bankrupt. this was for four infant…

I mean, China still has food safety issues to this day, so it's not as if this seems to be working https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#674

Post by panick21_ »

purerandomness wrote: post #376
panick21_ wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netscape died because browser became a utility in the OS.

It's not that simple. Netscape died because Microsoft bundled their browser with the operating system and made it free for commercial use, what essentially led to the huge antitrust case. Only after that did browsers become utilities in the OS, with open source engines like Konqueror's KHTML (which later became WebKit, which later became Blink) and Netscape/Mozilla's Gecko

Microsoft was the overwhelming majority of all installations. So effectively, once Microsoft added it, it was a utility. I'm well aware of that history.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#675

Post by stjohnswarts »

marcosdumay wrote: post #518
riffraff wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? How did that caused the deal to fall apart? (I was actually under the impression this acquisition had happened until a few minutes ago)

I thought that too. From Wikipedia: > in April 2020 Boeing terminated the joint venture deal due to impact of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic on aviation and market uncertainty. Embraer alleges that the financial impact of the Boeing 737 MAX groundings contributed to the demise of the deal So, the deal was broken before both governments had time to decide if they allowed it. (I do remember some of Embraer clients ca…

Didn't it look like Brazilian government was almost 100% gonna have it called off because of the "hit" to national reputation? (losing one of their largest and most internationally famous powerhouses)

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#676

Post by School-Cotton »

roody15 wrote: post #419

Interesting timeline. Following the two fatal crashes involving the MCAS system and the 737 Max … The FAA gave Boeing until Dec of 2022 to implement a fix. The fix was to reconfigure the 737 Max with 2 sensors (instead of one) and include an manual shutoff Guess what happened? Boeing didn’t fix anything.. instead they cried to congress that the fix is too expensive and they cannot get it done. So what happens is cong…

> makes me question if we are even a functioning democracy

The US has not been a functioning democracy for a very long time, if it ever even was.

Don’t despair! Plenty of people have fulfilling and happy lives in non-democracies. But it’s important to be realistic about the chances of anything about the political system fundamentally changing.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#677

Post by stjohnswarts »

travisgriggs wrote: post #75

At what point does Boeing just scrap the 9s? Completely, for good? It’s all starting to feel like the galaxy note, where you pass a tipping point of no return with public perception.

That isn't going to happen, they are too many out there and they have too much money invested. It would take FAA action (or European I suppose)

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#678

Post by stjohnswarts »

brewdad wrote: post #121
HumblyTossed wrote: post #7

The plane that had the issue was new, so I guess they want to make sure it wasn't an issue with other planes off the line maybe? Sure is a good thing nobody was sitting in that seat.

Another good reason to keep that seat belt fastened even when the sign is off.

Being a fat guy, I disregard that during flight other than takeoff, landing, and turbulence. I drive to work on most days, and the chance that I die that way is FAR, FAR higher than the few flights I take each year. I'll live with the odds. Yes, I wear my seat belt in my car, it's actually comfortable

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#679

Post by inferiorhuman »

sdh9 wrote: post #631
tavavex wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is pretty concerning. The way how Boeing can get its way simply by threatening to can the entire MAX program (which they'd never actually do) shows that there's a very deep level of integration between the US government and its biggest companies, especially one like Boeing that's often seen as kind of a minor point of national pride. Not only that, but the article mentions that the 737 MAXs got an exemption on p…

The best part is that Boeing had EICAS, the engine indicating and crew alerting system, in the early 80s with the introduction of the 757/767. In the mid-90s, when they updated the 737 to the Next Generation, they opted to stay with the six-pack recall light system that every 737 pilot hates. Same in the Max. Too expensive to change and would likely require a new type rating. The A320 was such a technological leap fo…

I can't imagine EICAS is that expensive, the P-8 has it. Requiring a new type rating seems far more likely given that's how we got MCAS.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#680

Post by InTheArena »

Almost all of this can be laid specifically to the moment when Boeing passed over Alan Mullally for its next CEO in favor of a bean counter. Mullaly went to Ford and rescued that company. If Boeings board were serious about a true turnover here, they need to try and find Mullally And get him on the board right now. At this point the best outcome that I see is a BCA sale to Lockheed. That’s a high order, Elon tried to lure him to Tesla, but was unsuccessful.

It’s also worth noting that this is the ultimate outcome of the never rewrite anything mentality. Sooner or later technical debt catches up with you, they needed to launch a new, narrow body 15 years ago, but kept soldering on with the 737, which in turn is really a Boeing 707. While the 797 is the plane that launched the jet and unquestionably the greatest airliner of all time, it’s time is long long past.

You can recover from where boeing is at now. It’s not that much worse than airbus was at after their A320 flew into a forest and they hid the flight data recorders, or commercial disaster that was the A380, or the first 350 proposal but they have to want to change.

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