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FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

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Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#511
post #288

This feels like the attention that shark attacks get--way more than it deserves. Somehow as a society we've decided that the correct number of deaths from airplanes is zero, but we're fine with thousands of people dying from other causes that could be prevented.

What the...? Hey, the model of phone or computer you're using might be prone to lethally exploding, but hey, don't worry, you can keep using it because dying by computer/phone explosion would be a very rare thing indeed!

A door blows out, and you think no one should say "Wait a minute, let's check all the other doors before you use that model of plane..."?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#512

Two days ago before we got on one of these planes I said to my partner “don’t worry, it’s the most scrutinized plane in history”.

> don’t worry, it’s the most scrutinized plane in history

That's a bad thing, not a positive one that it needs so much scrutiny.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#513
Why doesn't Boeing split into a commercial airplane producer and a pure defense contractor company. The former will then have to struggle like a real company while the defense contractor will still be above the law.

I'm sure I'm missing lots of logical steps which say that this is a bad idea, but I'd like to hear reasons on why.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it the best? I've flown on it, and it seems nice enough, though it isn't the most comfortable airliner I've flown on. It's certainly the biggest! But there are only what, 250 or so that were put into service? It's hard to have a strong opinion about a plane in such a small niche.

If the engineering of this plane wouldn't have been that great disaster would have loomed.[0] No question about that. [0] https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/a-matter-of-millimeters-...

That was an excellent read. Thanks for that.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#516

Good book describing the cultural change from engineering-focus to business-focus of Boeing: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55994102-flying-blind * https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/646497/flying-blind...

A friend of mine works in Boeing as a data scientist. His team has 10 people. Two of them can write code for analytics and models. The other 8 "manage projects", whatever that means. They spend their days creating processes, managing tickets, enforcing specific formats of tickets and stories and what not. Yet, none of the eight knew how to write product specs nor could be bothered with basic things like understanding…

I feel like this is especially pervasive in the data and ML fields. Perhaps just to many formally cloistered academic PhDs are cashing in on the corporate rush to data and ML "everything", but have no actual ability to execute or even code.

I went to a large "AI" conference this year and was surprised to see some talks being given by the "VP of ML" at the company I work at. I'd never heard of him or the position before, and when I looked him up in our company directory he appeared to sit somewhere in Pharmacy data science. But it's a massive company, so who knows?

When I attended his first talk wearing our company swag he seemed visibly uncomfortable and...grumpy(?) after he noticed me. His talk was a very non-technical, superficial fly-over of how ML can be used to profile and predict customer spending habits on our company e-commerce domains. Nothing even to do with pharma! At another table session in the day he dropped that his PhD is from MIT. Our company is big -name brand in its field- but by no means does it attract "MIT level" talent; not in pay, problems, or prestige. But again, it's a massive company, so who know? Yet at this point I'm entertaining my own little conference conspiracy theory that this guy is just a corporate cutout.

The next day I ran into him at the conference lunch line and gave him a: "Hey, how's it going! I'm at {our company} too, over in {line-of-business}". He nodded, chuckled to himself, and without even looking up said "oh yeah, you here to call me on my bullshit"? I was so confused that this would be the first thing out of his mouth with no context between us, even as a seeming joke, that I didn't know what to say. He politely excused himself to run to another table session before I could figure out how to respond.

Since then I've tried to track his team and any work/product/output they might provide but for the life of me cannot find anything other than some Jira tickets that get pushed around. But it's a massive company, so who knows?

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any kind of law that mentions a company by name should be automatically rejected, unless it is to add more limitations based on past (bad) performance and then only to document the reason the law exists, never to provide exemptions.

> Any kind of law that mentions a company by name should be automatically rejected, unless No "unless". No law should target a specific company or individual by name, ever, whether to give them special exceptions or special permissions or special restrictions or anything else. (They also shouldn't target specific companies by sufficiently-specific-description-it-only-applies-to-one-or-two-companies, either.)

If course they can: laws frequently cite specific cases and specific abuses in their supporting documentation in order to point out the exact intent of the law.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Embraer) which Boeing tried buying but the deal was reverted due to the failure of the 737-max..

Wait, what? How did that caused the deal to fall apart? (I was actually under the impression this acquisition had happened until a few minutes ago)

I thought that too. From Wikipedia:

> in April 2020 Boeing terminated the joint venture deal due to impact of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic on aviation and market uncertainty. Embraer alleges that the financial impact of the Boeing 737 MAX groundings contributed to the demise of the deal

So, the deal was broken before both governments had time to decide if they allowed it.

(I do remember some of Embraer clients canceling orders in 2020. AFAIK, they are still bottlenecked by their manufacturing capacity.)

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

787 program: - designed to outsource most manufacturing to the lowest bidder, many program management problems, overruns and delays - to bust unions new factory was created in South Carolina and this has very poor QC, there are rumors that a certain large middle eastern airline refuses to accept any planes assembled there 737 program: - they decided that they are not going to do a clean sheet 737NG and use the existi…

It's safer to have a new airplane design behave like the old one. There have been many crashes due a pilot being stressed and automatically doing something that would have been right on a previous airplane he was familiar with, but which was wrong for the current airplane he is flying. All jet airliners are aerodynamically unstable and use active controls to "paper over" that. There is nothing inherently wrong with d…

It literally killed hundreds of people by pretending to be the same plane.

Re: FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s

#520

The only remedy at this point is to hold executives financially and morally culpable. Anyone opposed to seeing the entire C-suite and board of directors having their bonuses clawed back and sent to jail? I'm not. Let the guillotine come out, I want to see heads roll.

Sounds like a great way to create an airplane company that no competent people will want to run. Might want to think through the game-theoretic consequences a bit further. For example, instead of ranting and howling about prisons and guillotines, you could point to some successful examples of other companies or orgs that have operated in a similar fashion. That might provide more productive grounds for further discus…

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