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New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

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Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#21
post #12

How will they keep the private keys secret?

They can't, ultimately, it's basically just DRM but in reverse. I'm sure they can make it hard , with secure silicon etc., but they'll never make it impossible and that somewhat defeats the purpose.

The private keys in credit cards (the ones with chips) are pretty secure. I'm no aware of them being extractable.

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't, ultimately, it's basically just DRM but in reverse. I'm sure they can make it hard , with secure silicon etc., but they'll never make it impossible and that somewhat defeats the purpose.

The private keys in credit cards (the ones with chips) are pretty secure. I'm no aware of them being extractable.

I'm sure they're not extractable at scale, otherwise we'd have heard about it, but they're almost certainly extractable on a one-off basis if you have a big enough budget (one that likely outweighs whatever you'd stand to gain from it). It's just not the low hanging fruit of the system as a whole.

I also expect it not to be the low-hanging fruit of these cameras, but it is still one possible attack vector.

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#24
post #11

Slightly off topic, but has anyone felt they've improved at identifying "AI" images? My instagram feed is increasingly filled with "AI models", for some reason I can really easily identify these images whereas earlier on I really struggled a lot. Now I can more easily recogize these images, it actually turns me off using Instagram as I find it annoying / jarring. A few months back, I'd be looking at the hands etc to…

I _think_ I'm good at identifying AI images, but part of it is you can never be sure.

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#25
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that full edit history is preserved - not verbatim in the metadata, but as a tag that can be looked up in a database. More info here: https://c2pa.org/

As much as I can glean from the video, it's heavily dependent on a central database to hold the edits. If someone alters a video, the original would need to be viewable. Who's storing that, and streaming it? And then who's paying for that? I'm guessing that in the end this will be a paid service for journalistic organizations who buy in.

>If someone alters a video, the original would need to be viewable.

What exactly do you mean by "need"? This system doesn't stop anyone from distributing edited or staged or otherwise bogus media, because that was never the intention. It does allow someone to demonstrate - with a fairly high level of trustworthiness - that the media they're delivering is raw, unedited footage taken with a particular camera at a particular time in a particular place.

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I can glean from the video, it's heavily dependent on a central database to hold the edits. If someone alters a video, the original would need to be viewable. Who's storing that, and streaming it? And then who's paying for that? I'm guessing that in the end this will be a paid service for journalistic organizations who buy in.

>If someone alters a video, the original would need to be viewable. What exactly do you mean by "need"? This system doesn't stop anyone from distributing edited or staged or otherwise bogus media, because that was never the intention. It does allow someone to demonstrate - with a fairly high level of trustworthiness - that the media they're delivering is raw, unedited footage taken with a particular camera at a parti…

Proving that you're delivering the raw unedited footage requires retaining the raw unedited footage (i.e. whatever was originally signed by the camera body), and distributing it to anyone who asks to check your proofs. This is inevitably a different (and much larger) file, to whatever ends up streaming from social media platforms.

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#27
post #11

Slightly off topic, but has anyone felt they've improved at identifying "AI" images? My instagram feed is increasingly filled with "AI models", for some reason I can really easily identify these images whereas earlier on I really struggled a lot. Now I can more easily recogize these images, it actually turns me off using Instagram as I find it annoying / jarring. A few months back, I'd be looking at the hands etc to…

I _think_ I'm good at identifying AI images, but part of it is you can never be sure.

Yeah, I don’t disagree.

But in some sense , when could any photo be trusted ? We’ve had airbrushing, CGI forever now.

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#29

How will they keep the private keys secret?

With homomorphic encryption you can make them provably unextractable.

If you have a black box that signs things, the information required to make it sign arbitrary things is always going to be extractable, one way or another.

PUFs attempt to prevent this, but I'm not sure it's been done in a provably secure way yet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_unclonable_function

Re: New Tech from Camera Makers Tries to Prove Photos Are Not AI Fakes

#30
post #11

Slightly off topic, but has anyone felt they've improved at identifying "AI" images? My instagram feed is increasingly filled with "AI models", for some reason I can really easily identify these images whereas earlier on I really struggled a lot. Now I can more easily recogize these images, it actually turns me off using Instagram as I find it annoying / jarring. A few months back, I'd be looking at the hands etc to…

What you are looking at might have a lower compute count as the popularity grows and the GPU/User ratio shrinks.

A GPU shortage under popularity growth should result in more obvious AI art over time sans an algorithm breakthrough that reduces compute cost by orders.

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