Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Minimum Wage Clock

moonbase.lgbt

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 278 posts

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#251

Post by felurx »

Y-bar wrote: post #243
petsfed wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, there is never any scenario where a union is more effective than individuals each advocating for their own needs, because the organizations people negotiate with always negotiate in good faith, and both sides provide all available information to the other. /s Corporations respond to our actions, certainly. But in the same way (and for the same reason), we respond to corporate actions. You can bet that ever…

I am a union member because I took individual action to become a member. This union would not be as powerful as it is without concerted actions of many individuals. No single raindrop can cause a flood, but many singular raindrops are required for it to happen.

With enough advertising and lobbying, you can however influence the likelihoods of raindrops acting in certain ways. (I absolutely agree with you, but I believe that we shouldn't ignore the ways powerful people influence the masses.)

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#252

Post by jjj123 »

renewiltord wrote: post #177
Philpax wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does he write his own books, though? [0] [1] [2] It's his name on the front of the book, but he is not necessarily the primary author. That sounds a little unethical to me. [0] https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/380231/James-P... [1] https://theconversation.com/why-you-dont-need-to-write-much-... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/featu...

Stephen King then? Or J K Rowling? They became billionaires off their work and wrote all their own work if image rights are unethical to you. Taylor Swift, perhaps? Paul McCartney. You only need one example to disprove the case. It doesn’t seem ridiculous that if you make something and charge $10 and 100 million people pay you that you’re necessarily doing something unethical.

I don’t think any of them have done something unethical to earn their billion, but artist billionaires are certainly outliers.

They’re such outliers that it’s still a safe assumption someone has done something exploitative if they’re a billionaire.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#253

Post by jjj123 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #92
margalabargala wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you and the person you replied to are talking about two different things here. OP is saying "in terms of goals, the end goal should be reduction of poverty, not reduction of rich people". You're saying "in reality, data says that reduction of rich people tends to correlate with reduction of poverty", thus opening up reduction of rich people as one potential path towards the reduction of poverty. I don't think…

What society reduced it's rich people and increased the average richness? When I think of the concept my mind jumps to stalin eliminating the kulaks, or mao and the cultural revolution, or pol pot, which ended up helping destroy their society, not make everyone wealthier.

There were obviously other factors at play, but the US was at its most equal just after WW2, which was also a very prosperous time.

Source: Capital by Piketty

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#254

Post by throw10920 »

doesnt_know wrote: post #83
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

First, this comment is emotionally manipulative, so I'm flagging it. Comments such as " Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out?" and "Feels sort of tone deaf" do not intellectually contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever and serve purely to emotionally manipulate the reader.

Second, no, it's absolutely not a cop-out. You mentioned yourself that nation states crafted this system. You're a member of one of those nation states, and there's a very strong chance that it's a democratic one, in which case you still bear the responsibility to elect responsible leaders!

The consumer absolutely bears all of the responsibility, because the consumer is, at least in the US and many other parts of the world, also the voter.

Your apathy in responsible company research and product purchase is extremely likely also coupled with an apathy in representative research and activism. No, merely voting for your preferred political party does not automatically install good regulators - you actually have to invest effort into research and activism.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#255

Post by nec4b »

digging wrote: post #121
amelius wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ok with people working hard and getting paid for it. I'm not ok with those people using their money against me in any way, which is what still happens and nobody talks about.

> I'm ok with people working hard and getting paid for it Is that an accurate description of CEOs worth billions of dollars though? How hard are they supposedly working? I'm probably lazier than most of them as an IC with disabilities and non-work interests... but it's not humanly possible that they get ~40,000 times as much done in a day as I do.

>> but it's not humanly possible that they get ~40,000 times as much done in a day as I do.

But you do understand why a popular singer or a football player get that much more than you?

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#256

Post by bparsons »

slibhb wrote: post #23

People like to talk about inequality but absolute poverty seems like a more important target. Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; I'm more concerned about the availability of jobs, food, housing, etc. That said, CEO salary does strike me as strange. Who needs 8 million per year + stock? I'd think more CEOs would voluntarily take a pay cut.

The political power associated with having tens of billions of dollars is what ends up becoming the reinforcing structural problem with the economy.

Accumulated capital is a type of artificial intelligence. Its goal is to defend its existence and accumulate more. When it accumulates more, it needs to defend itself more. This means tax laws and interpretations that benefit a very certain type of citizen. It means international treaties that allow the movement of capital when the local laws become inconvenient. It means business regulations that protects investor instead of consumer interests.

If you let this go on for a certain amount of time, the structure of the economy starts to make no sense to the vast majority of the participants.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#257

Post by bparsons »

kurisufag wrote: post #47
AlexandrB wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Satya Nadella having more money than me doesn't make my life worse; Are you sure about that? What if he spends that money supporting political figures and economic policies that make your life worse?

following this line of logic would mean that /anyone/ having more capital than you is evidence of wrongness, including social capital.

You are getting close.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#258

Post by mdhb »

justrealist wrote: post #201
CharlesW wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, ~30% of all hourly, non-self-employed workers 18 and older in the U.S. are "near-minimum-wage" workers, who make more than the minimum wage in their state but less than $10.10 an hour. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/01/04/5-facts-a...

This article is from 2017.

Ah yes, you must be referring to the economic miracle that minimum wage workers talk about all the time from around 2017 onwards. Things clearly only got much better from there and absolutely in no way went backwards.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#259

Post by petsfed »

Y-bar wrote: post #243
petsfed wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, there is never any scenario where a union is more effective than individuals each advocating for their own needs, because the organizations people negotiate with always negotiate in good faith, and both sides provide all available information to the other. /s Corporations respond to our actions, certainly. But in the same way (and for the same reason), we respond to corporate actions. You can bet that ever…

I am a union member because I took individual action to become a member. This union would not be as powerful as it is without concerted actions of many individuals. No single raindrop can cause a flood, but many singular raindrops are required for it to happen.

My point was more that people wouldn't join unions if individual action always was all it took.

Indeed, sometimes the role of the union is to get everybody doing the same thing, and provide a safety net for individuals who suffer repercussions for doing the thing.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#260

Post by robertlagrant »

matrss wrote: post #85
robertlagrant wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old. Especially if the employer is a coffee shop or restaurant. I'm not sure that's true - experience counts in those industries. I speak as a former 18-year-old coffee shop person. I think this is a result of minimum wage not being enough for people who can only get a minimum wage job, but are getting on in…

> I'm not sure that's true - experience counts in those industries. I speak as a former 18-year-old coffee shop person. You are assuming that age equals experience, but a 19 year old might be working at the coffee shop for a year already when a 25 year old is just starting. Shouldn't the 19 year old have a higher pay then?

That's up to the shop owner. Minimum wage is a minimum, not a cap.
Post reply on HN