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Minimum Wage Clock

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Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#211

Post by bena »

plasmatix wrote: post #144
bena wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I low key hate that comic. It makes a false equivalency. Recognizing a car could be safer isn't contradicted by owning one. If anything, ownership should give you more insight into the material problems of the item in question. Likewise, society is just everything. So suggesting improvements isn't contradictory. However, there is some hypocrisy in lambasting the maker of the very luxury goods you purchase for exploit…

I think you’re misunderstanding the comic. I’ve always taken it to be exactly what you’re saying, thus the “I am very intelligent”. Because he’s not.

But it’s the “I am very intelligent” guy in every panel. The comic itself implies the first panel and final panel are the same criticism.

And if you point out any hypocrisy in a person’s action, someone will trot this out as if we can never call out people for contributing to a problem they are complaining about even if contributing is completely optional.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#212

Post by maerF0x0 »

doesnt_know wrote: post #83
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

> This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest.

While that is true, typically the customers in aggregate have far more power, both in monetary powers (it's a distributed power), and in democratic powers. Yes there's lobbying in the US, but if individuals gave $25 per voter to their desired cause they'd exceed the lobbying power. ($3.5B lobbying vs 168M voters from quick googles).

> Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!"

Except that it was introspective, not finger pointing. I do prefer a system where i get to choose as opposed to mandated.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#213

Post by throw10920 »

joshthecynic wrote: post #126
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Of course it's a copout. This entire discussion is intellectually dishonest and deeply unserious.

> Of course it's a copout. This entire discussion is intellectually dishonest and deeply unserious.

The only intellectually dishonest comment here is this one.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#214

Post by throw10920 »

photonthug wrote: post #202
lotsofpulp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? It is the other way around, consumers wanting to keep consuming and feeling good about it while blaming someone else.

> consumers wanting to keep consuming and feeling good about it while blaming someone else Strong disagree. It feels like an attempt to convince the public at large that a) they still have significant agency and b) they should feel extremely guilty and/or empowered by that. This paradox is usually a polite fiction at best, and in the worst-case it's a well-orchestrated psy-op. Like how "recycling" in many communities…

> they still have significant agency

It is objectively true that the public has significant agency, and the empirical evidence is the number of companies that took a political stance on some issue and then had to reverse it because of (uncoordinated) public backlash. Your unfounded assertions are categorically refuted by concrete examples such as Target and Bud Light publicly reversing their stances on some issues after consumer backlash.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#215

Post by skeaker »

npoc wrote: post #49
kimbernator wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's repeated ad nauseam, this was the intended purpose of the minimum wage, as quoted by FDR who signed the minimum wage into law: “It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, th…

It seems to be another case of naïve, clumsy legislation causing more problems than it solves.

Works on my machine

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#216

Post by rakkhi »

doesnt_know wrote: post #83
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Also it's a lot easier to complain on the Internet and raise awareness. Having to actually pay higher prices or go without the best product is a real cost to the individual. Easier to just "put it on global companies man". Peter Schiff did a good video a while back standing outside a Wallmart asking if any customer would pay more so the staff could earn more. Guess 100% of the response.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#217

Post by lmm »

Y-bar wrote: post #119
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Why not? As a consumer I can choose dinner from either beef from burned amazon rainforest, or a ratatouille made from seasonal local ingredients, or anything in between. I can choose to buy a 2-tonne gas SUV or something smaller. I can choose to participate in “fast fashion”, or choose to buy some of my clothing second-hand. I can choose a vacation by flying to Greece, or hiking the local area, or anywhere in between…

Our legal systems are set up so that exploitative megacorps have a bunch of structural advantages (megacorps are allowed to coordinate whereas workers and independent producers aren't; capital can move freely to the most convenient jurisdiction but workers can't; companies can deduct their expenses and defer their taxes but individuals can't...). Most of the things we buy aren't conscious choices (and we'd go crazy if we tried), so it's more effective and more important to have the right systems and incentives to naturally create good outcomes.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#218

Post by fxd123 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #204
fxd123 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can just increase minimum wage at the state level

So why not just recalculate the federal MW as a function of the states' - lowest, median, or average? I ask because lots of things like welfare payments and estimates of poverty level involve comparisons with the MW. It's sometimes advantageous for a politician to say 'we give $X in food stamps, that's equivalent to Y hours [of federal MW], therefore people are lazy freeloaders' or 'Median rent is equal to Z hours at…

> I ask because lots of things like welfare payments and estimates of poverty level involve comparisons with the MW

Can you give an example of such a welfare program? I'm not aware of any that use the minimum wage as a baseline. Most use the federal poverty level, which is pegged to the cost of food (and is updated yearly for inflation).

> It's sometimes advantageous for a politician to say...

I don't really care what politicians say; I'd rather have policy be evidence-based rather than reaction-based

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#219

Post by cedws »

dylan604 wrote: post #206
cedws wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reply made me smile because it's dead on. I'm 22. Though, I don't agree. There's things to learn at all ages.

I'm well past 2x your age, and I feel that if I didn't learn something new every day it was wasted. Nobody's claiming that there's not things to learn, but somebody doing the same job for 20 years compared to a 20-something that's just started is kind of ridiculous to think they aren't just beginning. The true sign of a 20-something is thinking they know everything because they have the book learning fresh outta scho…

>The true sign of a 20-something is thinking they know everything because they have the book learning fresh outta school

Young people between the ages of 18 and 23 are not generally doing knowledge work, they're working in cafes and bars where 1 year of experience can be as effective as 20. People between these ages should be entitled to the same minimum wage.

In knowledge work, of course 20 years of experience is much more valuable than none.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#220

Post by xtracto »

ilaksh wrote: post #39

I think it's strange that only a few of the richest countries are represented here. It would be good to include wages for something like 1) a software engineer in a less major Mexican city, 2) we can also compare with a restaurant worker in California which starting in April will be $20/hr, 3) minimum wage worker in poor country, 4) immigrant/unofficial worker in poor country not being given minimum wage, etc.

What I would love to see is a comparison between Mexicos minimum wage (about $1.5 USD per hour) and Carlos Slim (richest man in Mexico who ali was richest man in the world some years ago).

The disparity in Mexico is crazy.

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