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Minimum Wage Clock

moonbase.lgbt

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Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#171

Post by henriquez »

Y-bar wrote: post #119
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Why not? As a consumer I can choose dinner from either beef from burned amazon rainforest, or a ratatouille made from seasonal local ingredients, or anything in between. I can choose to buy a 2-tonne gas SUV or something smaller. I can choose to participate in “fast fashion”, or choose to buy some of my clothing second-hand. I can choose a vacation by flying to Greece, or hiking the local area, or anywhere in between…

You can “choose” assuming you have disposable income. For people who need cheap clothes, food, etc. there is still a systemic issue of wealth disparity and unjust enrichment. It’s more than any one company, CEO, or consumer purchase and it should be obvious.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#172

Post by digging »

gruez wrote: post #114
digging wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably true. The benefits of local business are 1) that dollars spent there generate more wealth for the local economy, as they're not extracted to offshore bank accounts; and 2) that there can be more accountability to and involvement with the community served. However, just because someone hasn't expanded their business to the state/national/international levels doesn't make them a good person, a good mana…

>that dollars spent there generate more wealth for the local economy, as they're not extracted to offshore bank accounts This is only one side of the equation. Globalization also means the local economy is also "extracting" wealth from other economies. >2) that there can be more accountability to and involvement with the community served. Yeah, like car dealerships using their "accountability to and involvement" to f…

> This is only one side of the equation. Globalization also means the local economy is also "extracting" wealth from other economies.

... more than large corporations do? Nonsense

> Yeah, like car dealerships using their "accountability to and involvement" to forcibly insert themselves in the value chain?

I would suggest you reread the sentence you quoted and then go ahead and finish reading the rest of my comment, because this sounds like an argumentative retort but I don't think you understood what you're replying to.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#173

Post by danaris »

cedws wrote: post #14
robertlagrant wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cap implies that the amount of value provided to the employer is lower if you're younger. It's not a cap, it's a minimum. This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it.

>It's not a cap, it's a minimum. misphrased, fixed. >This is so people can employ kids who have very little economic value and train them to have lots of it. But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old. Especially if the employer is a coffee shop or restaurant. Minimum wage should be the same for all ages. It should be at the discretion of the employ…

> But 18 year olds are not kids anymore and are capable of providing just as much economic value as a 25 year old.

TBH, this isn't even the most relevant argument here.

We don't have minimum wage laws because we think that every person produces at least (say) $15/hr of economic value.

We have minimum wage laws because we believe that no human being should have to work more than 40 hours a week to earn enough to live.

And there are 16-year-olds who are working to provide for their families (parents are dead, or disabled, etc, etc).

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#174

Post by petsfed »

Y-bar wrote: post #119
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Why not? As a consumer I can choose dinner from either beef from burned amazon rainforest, or a ratatouille made from seasonal local ingredients, or anything in between. I can choose to buy a 2-tonne gas SUV or something smaller. I can choose to participate in “fast fashion”, or choose to buy some of my clothing second-hand. I can choose a vacation by flying to Greece, or hiking the local area, or anywhere in between…

Similarly, there is never any scenario where a union is more effective than individuals each advocating for their own needs, because the organizations people negotiate with always negotiate in good faith, and both sides provide all available information to the other. /s

Corporations respond to our actions, certainly. But in the same way (and for the same reason), we respond to corporate actions. You can bet that every single one of those CEOs in the article is doing everything they legally can to prevent people from "choosing" to go elsewhere. Some are going beyond that.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#175

Post by wharvle »

dwighttk wrote: post #112
maerF0x0 wrote: post #13

If we find this appalling, let's stop consuming the products of those who we feel are "overpaid" and visit the website, businessplace, or other endeavors of those we feel are "underpaid". Tim Cook gets paid a lot (and so do many AAPL employees), but I can't help but admit that my last 3 laptops I bought with my own cash were MBP, and not a system76 or framework. And I'm more likely to visit costco than a farmer's mar…

"please move inefficiencies to things that are much more opaque and probably way more inefficient. Thanks"

“Please increase your costs and inconvenience for this product category double-digit percentages, in order to send a message so tiny nobody will notice”

Consumer action is notoriously ineffective. It’s a well-studied thing in poli-sci and economics. You need government to overcome coordination problems there, even with overwhelming support for a cause. Because the price if you “cooperate” is way too high unless a huge proportion of others choose “cooperate”, and you can’t tell what they’re picking until after the fact.

[edit] it’s fine if your goal is to have good feels, on the ethics front. It’s a total waste of time and effort and expense if you want to have an effect on anything other than your own feelings.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#176

Post by salawat »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #153
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

> Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? It is the other way around, consumers wanting to keep consuming and feeling good about it while blaming someone else.

Bullshit, and you know it. I want a computer with completely open schematics, completely open firmware and uCode, GPUs with no ties to the entertainment industry, and processors that don't have baked in "ring -3"s.

I want cars I can wrench on, and software I can trust. I want things that are mine first, not the manufacturers.

It. Will. Not. Happen. Short of doing it ourselves, because businesses can't spawn around those values.

So to hell with you pinning this on "well it's the consumers fault". To hell with that. The conspicuously absent feature is entirely a byproduct of industry. Not consumers. No one can consume what "industry" decides is bad for business.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#177

Post by renewiltord »

Philpax wrote: post #158
renewiltord wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

James Patterson just wrote books people like and he’s a billionaire. Are murder stories unethical or something?

Does he write his own books, though? [0] [1] [2] It's his name on the front of the book, but he is not necessarily the primary author. That sounds a little unethical to me. [0] https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/380231/James-P... [1] https://theconversation.com/why-you-dont-need-to-write-much-... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/featu...

Stephen King then? Or J K Rowling? They became billionaires off their work and wrote all their own work if image rights are unethical to you.

Taylor Swift, perhaps? Paul McCartney. You only need one example to disprove the case.

It doesn’t seem ridiculous that if you make something and charge $10 and 100 million people pay you that you’re necessarily doing something unethical.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#178

Post by kulahan »

Y-bar wrote: post #119
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Why not? As a consumer I can choose dinner from either beef from burned amazon rainforest, or a ratatouille made from seasonal local ingredients, or anything in between. I can choose to buy a 2-tonne gas SUV or something smaller. I can choose to participate in “fast fashion”, or choose to buy some of my clothing second-hand. I can choose a vacation by flying to Greece, or hiking the local area, or anywhere in between…

Because the Tragedy of the Commons exists. Everyone doing what makes sense from their perspective doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.

Re: Minimum Wage Clock

#179

Post by soperj »

Y-bar wrote: post #119
doesnt_know wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't putting this onto the consumer a little bit of a cop out? This enormous global system of powerful corporations and nation states crafted this system because it was in their best interest. Feels sort of tone deaf to say "well, you got what you deserved, you created this sytem by buying this specific computer and cheaper food!" Night/farmer's markets are quite popular here in NZ but we haven't toppled global inqu…

Why not? As a consumer I can choose dinner from either beef from burned amazon rainforest, or a ratatouille made from seasonal local ingredients, or anything in between. I can choose to buy a 2-tonne gas SUV or something smaller. I can choose to participate in “fast fashion”, or choose to buy some of my clothing second-hand. I can choose a vacation by flying to Greece, or hiking the local area, or anywhere in between…

> Voting in booths generally works better to affect change in systems like these with externalities, but voting with action and wallets also works.

I find that voting in booths doesn't tend to actually do anything, and voting with wallets actually accomplishes things.

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