Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#861

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:56 PM UTC

AYBABTME wrote: post #768

atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I drove from Reno to LA recently in a Model Y and my charging stops all lined up with bathroom breaks and food. I never actually waited for the charging process itself. It doesn't take 45min and it's not like I have any interest in sitting for more than 3h-4h straight without stopping at all. I've done plenty of long distance trips with my kids and the Tesla and, really, charging is a non-issue. The only actual negat…

[deleted]

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#862

Post by mrcarruthers » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:57 PM UTC

troyvit wrote: post #727

_ea1k wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, EVs are most convenient for well over half the country. I'd say that we are nowhere near saturation. But reading the room leads me to believe that there are a lot of people in your target demographic who think that EVs are for city dwellers. The biggest issues for getting from 10% to ~50% are communication, price, and availability.

An EV just doesn't do anything that my 2007 Pontiac Vibe doesn't do better. My car is worth about $3,000. It: - Has a 400 mile range - Can stop anywhere and refuel in just a few minutes, including very isolated areas - Plays all the music I want - Hauls anything I want (ie. I don't care if I trash the interior with a pile of mulch on a plastic tarp) - I can sleep in the back - Fits in nicely in my lower middle class…

To be fair to your last paragraph, you're less annoyed at EVs than at new cars in general. All new cars are trending towards this, with a few stragglers for the models that haven't been refreshed in a while.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#863

Post by mrcarruthers » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:58 PM UTC

outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

This is why I bought a PHEV. Only one car, 90% of the time we're on electric, and I still have the gas engine for when I want to go far.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#864

Post by theLiminator » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:58 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #782

atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I’m in that first group too and I bought a new car in 2023. I went ICE ultimately because I didn’t see many electric options I would want. Cars are part fashion so I wanted to “like it”. But I also mostly car about reliability and longevity as I usually buy new but keep for 10-12 years and don’t want the inconvenience of maintenance beyond the routine stuff. In the past, this put me in a Honda/Toyota but this time I…

Curious if you looked at any PHEV options?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#865

Post by _ea1k » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:59 PM UTC

troyvit wrote: post #727

_ea1k wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, EVs are most convenient for well over half the country. I'd say that we are nowhere near saturation. But reading the room leads me to believe that there are a lot of people in your target demographic who think that EVs are for city dwellers. The biggest issues for getting from 10% to ~50% are communication, price, and availability.

An EV just doesn't do anything that my 2007 Pontiac Vibe doesn't do better. My car is worth about $3,000. It: - Has a 400 mile range - Can stop anywhere and refuel in just a few minutes, including very isolated areas - Plays all the music I want - Hauls anything I want (ie. I don't care if I trash the interior with a pile of mulch on a plastic tarp) - I can sleep in the back - Fits in nicely in my lower middle class…

Most of your issues have nothing to do with EVs, tbh. :lol

Your Vibe fills up in your garage while you are sleeping? Cool.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#866

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 6:01 PM UTC

Aqueous wrote: post #688

Sorry, but in what world do sales of electric cars going up and market share of electric vehicles increasing lead to the thesis that "fewer people are buying electric cars?" Oh - I get it. It's the world where this publication wants clicks for ad revenue. "Sure, electric vehicles are becoming more and more widely adopted, but wouldn't it be better for this article if they weren't?"

[deleted]

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#867

Post by Tiktaalik » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 6:02 PM UTC

The article nails it really. The core problem here is that a small minded swap from ICE to EV is only a mild implementation improvement on top of an already fragile transportation system that is riddled with problems.

The government could really get the ball rolling by incentivizing a switch further by by adding more stick along with the current carrots, adding a carbon tax to make ICE vehicles less appealing, but that is likely to be unbelievably contentious as it is in Canada.

The bigger gains have always been a more fundamental transformation of the transportation system from car oriented to a multi-modal system of moving people around via walking/cycling/bus/train.

The article suggests that this is expensive but I don't really think it is. Cycling infrastructure is unbelievably cheap compared to everything else, and walking is made more viable at the stroke of a pen simply by changing the zoning and building code to actually allow people to build walkable neighbourhoods with retail amenities, which unbelievably remain outright banned in so many places.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#868

Post by BirAdam » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 6:02 PM UTC

audunw wrote: post #376

rdtsc wrote: post #66

> But an analysis from CarGurus found that EV prices were still 28% higher than gas-vehicle prices on average. To me that is bonkers. When EVs were becoming popular, I was expecting to see super cheap, under $10k vehicles. That was the promise: forget about all the IC complicated gears, alternators, transmission, fuel pumps and imagine getting a motor and batteries, what could be simpler!". But no, we ended up with m…

The problem is that if they made a sub $10k vehicle now, "everyone" would buy it. That sounds great, but there's simply not enough battery factories to make the batteries for that many vehicles. The demand for expensive vehicles is still high enough that most of the EV battery factory output of the world can go to those expensive high margin vehicles, so of course the car makers haven't focused on low cost. There are…

Beyond not having enough batteries, there aren't even enough lithium mines.

EVs are also competing for batteries and mines with renewable energy infrastructure development.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#869

Post by tk90 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 6:02 PM UTC

Rather than doom and gloom based on personal EV demand, I'd love to see the numbers on corporate EV adoption too (corporate fleets and electric semi trucks). The push for renewables in states like California show an entirely different story than what this article suggests.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#870

Post by Tiktaalik » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 6:05 PM UTC

The "road trip problem" wouldn't be a problem if folks could casually get on a train to the next town over etc.

It really speaks to the broader issues of North America where Canada and the United States declined to build improved rail service for decades on decades. Whoops.