Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#811

Post by hiddencost » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

christiangenco wrote: post #778

atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

My wife and I own a single family home, a gas-powered car (Toyota Rav4), and an electric car (a standard range Tesla model 3). The electric car is much more convenient for us for city driving and the gas-powered car is much more convenient for road trips. Refuelling the Rav4 is an errand that takes time, planning, and mental energy. For my wife it's also a low-level danger: women find gas stations spooky, apparently.…

I hope you're really good to that cousin. It's damn hard to get time with skilled contractors.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#812

Post by aftbit » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #571

patryn20 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Just give me a NORMAL car with a modern electric drivetrain and I’ll be happy. I have my 4Runner for longer trips and “electric grid down because Texas is a 3rd world island in a 1st world country” situations. These electric cars are going for full gimmickry and just look like a giant long term ownership nightmare. Built to be disposable status symbols for your average American trying to appear wealthier t…

One minor comment, but if the electric grid is down, then it's likely you won't be able to pump gas either. At least, most gas stations have not planned to be functional without electricity.

I believe you but this never made sense to me. A random internet search shows that there are on the order of 100k gas stations in the USA. It seems like FEMA could come up with on the order of $20M to buy generators for all of them and make them come up with a plan to operate without electric power.

Although maybe it costs more than I think? This "industry lobbyist"[1] claims $40k PER PUMP which seems much more expensive than the ~$2000/station I was estimating.

1: https://www.cnbc.com/id/49667864

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#813

Post by wernercd » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

natch wrote: post #705

atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I don’t think I’ve ever done a 45 minute charge stop in many trips between California and faraway places including Colorado, Montana, and Texas. These are not day trips. People read stuff and just believe it without questioning. Most of my charge stops are much quicker than what you think. 10 minutes usually. Sometimes 20 or more ahead of a long desert stretch where gas stations are also few and far between, but usua…

Safety is great in EVs until a battery pops and it takes a 3 alarm fire crew and 36,000 gallons of water to put it out.

https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2024/01/02/unusual...

> “This was a first for Autauga County,” the fire department wrote. “Electric vehicle fires are unusual and present unique challenges and dangers to firefighters.” The smoke from these types of fires contains toxic gases such as hydrogen fluoride and hydrogen chloride, officials said. The batteries can also reignite even after they blaze has been put out, the fire department added.

"I read about accidents people had in their nice 5 year old gas cars" So the question becomes why is "I've read about" a valid response and how does it stand up against "I read about how dangerous EVs are in a random article somewhere online sometime"?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#814

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

syntheticnature wrote: post #721

atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

Tangent: As someone driving a gas car, I would like to know how your car takes only 2 minutes to refuel. 5 minutes? Certainly, if the station is not getting heavy traffic (which seems to slow the pumps), and on a long trip it's quite likely it will a busy interstate-side station that might get to ten minutes due to slow-flowing gas. Even so, as we both know, it's unlikely to reach 15 minutes as discussed else-thread,…

Maybe it depends on what you drive? My car takes about 6-7 gallons when empty, but I see tons of other cars taking huge amounts.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#815

Post by tonis2 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 4:59 PM UTC

I'm going to wait until battery technology updates, everyday I see in the news about solid-stage batteries, sodium batteries ..etc

Like 60% of the price of electric car are the batteries, I guess.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#816

Post by toastercat » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

TexanFeller wrote: post #15

I want an EV to be more reliable and save me more money in the long run. EVs start out ~10k more than the Corolla most people should buying. They then compromise the long term reliability and maintenance cost with high tech gee whiz features. I’d sooner have manual roll up windows than touch screen controlled air vents. When you integrate sensors and software controls into every little thing, we know those things wil…

100%. My S.O. wants my next car to be an electric, but I'm hesitant because my current car (an 05 Civic LX) has been running non-stop like a champ since the day I started driving it 17 years ago. I've been going to the same mechanic in all that time, and repair costs have always been low thanks in part to the OEM market, but also to the self-repairability of older Hondas. I dread the day I have to get a new car only to find out I can't self-repair the car as much as I do now.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#817

Post by proc0 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:09 PM UTC

megaman821 wrote: post #633

proc0 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is making electricity cheaper, which means finding better alternatives to renewables, for the time being. Realistically only nuclear can get there until more breakthroughs happen in solar. Instead we're seeing electricity go up and this is only going to make people double down on gas cars, moving to a different state if needed.

To make electricity cheaper, we need more of nuclear, the most expensive electricity generator?

Making a working tech cheaper is easier than trying to discover new tech that we don't even know will have enough output. Also, if they were that expensive then I would think they wouldn't get built at all, but there are a lot of nuclear plants, not to mention we can always continue investing in renewables and eventually phase them out.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#818

Post by sonicanatidae » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:10 PM UTC

outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

The problems for me are a few.

EVs cost more.

EVs take more than a couple of mins to "gas up".

EV range is still lacking, compared to available charging stations, imo.

When the market gets it right, I'll jump in with both feet, but I'm not spending twice the money on a car, then deal with horse shit like Tesla and others when it comes to service visits, scheduling, etc.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#819

Post by skwirl » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:14 PM UTC

pentae wrote: post #724

atestu wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

I feel the same way and after speaking with many EV people i've realised the main benefit is how cheap they are to run. This comes down to the increase in efficiency compared to an ICE - ~80% of the battery energy finds its way to the wheels on EV's, vs ~30% on an ICE. If you live somewhere where electric costs are very low then a 0 to full charge your EV costs about $10. (Someone please correct me if i'm off on this…

> the main benefit is how cheap they are to run

This is a pretty weak main benefit as ICE cars are already cheap to run. At 12k miles/year, 30 MPG, and $3.20/gallon you are only talking $1300/year in fuel.

According to AAA, taking fuel, maintenance, repair, and tires into account someone driving 15k miles a year would only save $330. Given the cost premium on an EV over a comparable ICE car, I’m not sure you would ever come out ahead, although the cost gap is admittedly shrinking.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#820

Post by wing-_-nuts » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 5:16 PM UTC

jewayne wrote: post #744

thereddaikon wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>nother factor that could be at play is that all the non-Tesla EV makers have recently announced they will switch their chargers to NACS, but this will take a couple of years to roll out, so it’s not a great time to buy a non-Tesla since it already has legacy charging hardware. This is a big factor and one I note to anyone I know who is thinking of buying an EV. You don't want to be stuck with a dead end tech. Buying…

Somebody check my facts here, but isn't the NACS/Tesla charging standard just CCS with a different plug? Shouldn't the CCS-to-NACS adapters available today work seamlessly both now and in the future? Am I missing something here?

They are, but Tesla makes it difficult for non tesla owners to use their chargers as they have no built in 'pay here' infrastructure (at least from what I've seen)