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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#671

Post by theshrike79 »

NoGravitas wrote: post #555
theshrike79 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries are too expensive for cheap cars. There won't be $1k beater EVs for a _long_ time. Just the raw metals in any decently sized battery is worth 2-3 times that. Even more if the battery cells are still in working condition, it can be repurposed for multiple uses. Also expensive cars have bigger profit margins - which is the real reason =)

> Batteries are too expensive for cheap cars. Tell that to BYD.

BYD is funded and subsidised by the government of PRC. Their local prices aren't exactly market rates.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#672

Post by willcipriano »

atestu wrote: post #664
outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

[flagged]

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#673

Post by pjc50 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #186

Title is incorrect. > Sure, sales of EVs keep going up — a record 300,000 cars sold in the US in the third quarter of 2023 were electric — but the pace of adoption has markedly slowed So, from that we're to conclude that electric cars are doomed? In fact, fewer more people are buying cars: > Electric car registrations accounted for more than 16% of the market in the first seven months of 2023, up from 14% this time l…

Yes, it's very misleading report that the second derivative has changed.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#674

Post by thatfrenchguy »

wmeredith wrote: post #659
talldatethrow wrote: post #90

I think EVs give me LESS range anxiety overall. In my gas car days, atleast once a month I was late for work or an event AND low on gas. Having to remember and think about getting gas was constantly on my mind because I have a pretty long commute. With an electric car, I start every day, always, with a full tank. No matter how late I'm running, I know there won't be a surprise that I need gas in addition to being lat…

Yeah, but if you're low and have to stop for gas, it makes you 10 minutes late. In an EV you're an hour late or have to find another ride.

I mean… you can also stop for 10 minutes, get that 30% of battery you need, and be on your way

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#675

Post by _ea1k »

outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

Yes, EVs are most convenient for well over half the country. I'd say that we are nowhere near saturation.

But reading the room leads me to believe that there are a lot of people in your target demographic who think that EVs are for city dwellers.

The biggest issues for getting from 10% to ~50% are communication, price, and availability.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#676

Post by bragr »

atestu wrote: post #664
outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

I'm in that first group and I don't see how it makes the most sense. They are not more convenient. I can "charge" my gas car in 2 minutes basically anywhere in the country. I'm going on vacation next week, driving with 2 young children. It'll be about a 11 hour drive which is not crazy for a US vacation. I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car. And they're all m…

> I don't want to plan where I stop and stop for 45 minutes to fuel up with 2 toddlers in the car.

With fast charging you typically only stop for 15-25 minutes, the infotainment or app does the planning for you, and the frequency you'll have to stop at matches the natural frequency people typically need to stop anyways by design.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#677

Post by lagadu »

sgu999 wrote: post #428
audunw wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that if they made a sub $10k vehicle now, "everyone" would buy it. That sounds great, but there's simply not enough battery factories to make the batteries for that many vehicles. The demand for expensive vehicles is still high enough that most of the EV battery factory output of the world can go to those expensive high margin vehicles, so of course the car makers haven't focused on low cost. There are…

I keep on seeing this problem reduced to the market or a business decision, but is it simply physically possible? These vehicles require much more energy to produce. And without a reduction in consumption, almost the entire economy accounts for the availability of the same materials in the near future to meet carbon emissions targets. It's not just cars in vacuum. It feels like we simply don't accept yet that the tim…

I don't think ever before we had significant periods of time where we actually get paid to use energy from the grid due to overprovisioning with renewables. Plenty of times during the past several years I've had negative electricity cost.

Energy seems to be more and more available as we expand the infrastructure.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#678

Post by thatfrenchguy »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #451
imhoguy wrote: post #395

Charging needs to be more convenient like gas refueling is. Max 5 minutes in any town or remote station. It is only achievable with battery swap/rental system - such already function in Asia for scooters.

Exactly. Many frequently cite the lower cost of charging the car vs paying for gas, but don't acknowledge the extra time spent. Let's say I spend $500/mo on gas for an ICE car. That's roughly 6 fill-ups per month at the gas prices where I live for a full tank that gets me 350 miles of range. How long does charging up an EV take for the same kind of range? How long does it take for 6 full recharges per month? Filling…

People with EVa charge 99% of their miles at home, so you’re gaining time.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#679

Post by _ea1k »

shmatt wrote: post #666
outlace wrote: post #627

EV’s currently make the most sense for people who own a single family home or otherwise live in a community with readily available near-home chargers, where EV’s are on average more convenient than gas cars. People who rely on street parking and apartment dwellers would likely find EV’s more inconvenient than a gas car. We may be close to saturating the market for the former group. Another factor that could be at pla…

EVs aren't cheap either, in 2 years one will get better battery tech and a new connector, plus whatever deprecation the battery will go through if you buy one today. 2023-4 and earlier EVs will lose a huge chunk of their worth once NACS cars with better than 200 mile range become available The value of my leased Volvo C40 has already fallen off a cliff and is less than my residual value. Once my lease is over there w…

Bolt starts at ~$26k. Civic starts at just under $24k. The Bolt is a mediocre road tripper, but lots of cars in that segment are just commuters that only very occasionally road trip. It'd be a great choice for a lot of people.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#680

Post by patryn20 »

epistasis wrote: post #571
patryn20 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Just give me a NORMAL car with a modern electric drivetrain and I’ll be happy. I have my 4Runner for longer trips and “electric grid down because Texas is a 3rd world island in a 1st world country” situations. These electric cars are going for full gimmickry and just look like a giant long term ownership nightmare. Built to be disposable status symbols for your average American trying to appear wealthier t…

One minor comment, but if the electric grid is down, then it's likely you won't be able to pump gas either. At least, most gas stations have not planned to be functional without electricity.

Yeah. But I can still fill an ICE car manually with a can or hand pump.

Also hurricane evacuation with mass electric adoption is going to be an interesting situation to observe. It may be better than with an ICE. We’ll see.

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