211–220 of 322 posts
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Oh, please. More blind ranting without reading the article.
SpaceX fired these employees for asking SpaceX to hold Elon accountable to SpaceX's own rules. It is appropriate to say that that is wrong. There's no "crying to mommy". It's saying "we all agreed to these rules as we came together as a company. Everyone should follow them."
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Speaking up against your employer should not threaten your job. if you mean this as advice, ok, but if you mean it as "this needs to be a law", what are you even talking about, authoritarian much? > That's how you get an echo chamber of horrible decisions made by the people who just so happen to sit at the top. firing employees for speaking out might get you, the employer , an echo chamber, but perhaps for your pro…
They weren’t criticizing the product direction. The letter was about Elon’s tweets and sexual harassment.
The whole (internal! Until leaked) open letter is near the bottom of that article. Wasn’t paywalled for me.
Reading it cleared up the noise in this thread pretty neatly. Sure looks like this has a great shot of counting as protected discussion of work conditions. I now know posts in this thread dismissing the letter as just “politics” or just “criticizing the CEO” have no connection to reality. It’s very restrained and focused.
Primary sources are cool.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But being fired the next day for a open letter that has some reasonable critique is something else. And there's also employer rights btw.
Circulating an open letter point-blank criticizing the CEO is absolutely unprofessional and I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired.
Is there a line you would draw somewhere? Anywhere?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Speaking up against your employer should not threaten your job. if you mean this as advice, ok, but if you mean it as "this needs to be a law", what are you even talking about, authoritarian much? > That's how you get an echo chamber of horrible decisions made by the people who just so happen to sit at the top. firing employees for speaking out might get you, the employer , an echo chamber, but perhaps for your pro…
>if you mean this as advice, ok, but if you mean it as "this needs to be a law", what are you even talking about, authoritarian much? Yes I think that should be law. You should be able to attempt to help self correct your company by speaking up and not have the your life blown up because of the misaligned interest of a select few at the top. Just quitting is the the most extreme form of protest, but not the most feas…
> It also said a company vice president had broken the law by criticizing the letter at a meeting with employees a few days after it was circulated Weird, breaking the law for just criticizing a letter written by employees? The judge might overturn this on the basis of free speech.
“Free speech” is used in many ways. But in the US, my understanding (IANAL) is that I can be fired for saying something, and cannot claim “free speech” as a general blanket protection. Exceptions exist if it is specifically a protected form of speech.
In the US workers have rights about what they can say and do in the workplace. Labor activism (agitating for a union) is protected. IANAL but reasonable criticism of the company may be protected to some degree as well.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But being fired the next day for a open letter that has some reasonable critique is something else. And there's also employer rights btw.
Circulating an open letter point-blank criticizing the CEO is absolutely unprofessional and I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But being fired the next day for a open letter that has some reasonable critique is something else. And there's also employer rights btw.
Circulating an open letter point-blank criticizing the CEO is absolutely unprofessional and I'm honestly shocked anyone here thinks they could pull this crap without getting fired.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not an equal playing field, hence why workers protections are important. That's why unemployment is important. None of these factors prevent someone from being let go without notice. Those points aren't germane to whether someone can be laid off. Criticizing the CEO isn't a protected activity in any event.
But criticizing the way the rules are being enforced and the selective nature of them IS a protected activity. This is clearly detailed in the article and suit.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>if you mean this as advice, ok, but if you mean it as "this needs to be a law", what are you even talking about, authoritarian much? Yes I think that should be law. You should be able to attempt to help self correct your company by speaking up and not have the your life blown up because of the misaligned interest of a select few at the top. Just quitting is the the most extreme form of protest, but not the most feas…
laws work best when they don't fill the courts with disputes that courts aren't designd to handle. There is no way the government can define and enforce your utopia with respect to "cults of personality". Please, give it a shot, what are the markers of a corporate cult of personality that needs to be regulated?
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You are confusing the topic here (I think purposefully).
The first idea is whether asking an employer to hold another employee accountable for the rules of conduct agreed to by all employees is allowed. It is. It falls under protected speech at work in the United States. This has been codified for decades (largely as a result of unionization efforts) and the courts know how, and were designed to, "handle it".
Second, Elon's personal actions with respect to it's effect on SpaceX. This would be for the Board of Directors to handle, but their is also clear prior art for a CEO's actions outside of their job as CEO having impact on the company. We've literally seen this with Elon before.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the opposite of meritocracy. And abuse of power on your bosses part. Don't know why so many in this thread seems to support obviously corrupt behavior.
Abuse of power is a relative term. If something is the norm, then doing it is not abuse. It's fine in most companies to complain about the boss to HR or to the boss themselves, but not fine to complain it to someone else. If I had bad boss who isn't doing anything illegal or breaks company's policy, I would likely switch my job rather than taking the impossible task of fixing them if they don't want to fix themselves…