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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#291

Post by fnordpiglet »

wolverine876 wrote: post #278
elif wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After taking an EV on a ~6500 mile road trip a couple months ago, I never want to road trip in a gas car ever again. Highlights: - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station - stop anywhere and sleep with air conditioning for free - never have to use gas station bathroom - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops - also no gas cars dr…

How are these easier in EVs than in ICE cars? > - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station What does that have to do with the power source? You can take breaks anywhere in an ICE vehicle too. > - never have to use gas station bathroom Can't you use the same bathrooms in ICE vehicles? Are they EV only? Does your EV include a half-bath? > - n…

EV chargers tend to be in places you actually want to be, such as shopping centers with decent restaurants and coffee shops. Yes, you absolutely can make two stops in a ICE vehicle - a gas station, then an optional stop to visit a shopping center. But people tend to stay where they stop then get back on the road. It’s not the power source that’s being discussed, it’s where the existing refueling infrastructure exists today. Reality is gas stations exist because gasoline is a noxious toxic pollutant that tends to explosively combust at worst and pollute the soil with benzene at best so you don’t generally mix it with a lot of other use. EV chargers are none of these things, and so can be placed literally anywhere in existing infrastructure like shopping centers and malls.

I agree, I have no issue taking long distance trips in my EV. My cars range is about 5 hours of driving, after which I am more than happy to get out at a charging station with a nice restaurant and eat some food, then drive to my stopping point for the day. I’m not really sure being able to drive 10 hours with a 5 minute stop for gas is a benefit over driving 10 hours with a 25 minute stop for a charge, especially if I do the 5 minute gas refuel then drive to the restaurant with the EV charger to eat for another 25 minutes. That’s 5 minutes of extra time to get gas rather than refueling at the same time.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#292

Post by ttfkam »

screye wrote: post #242
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I disagree. The sustainable alternative to EVs is hybrids, not gas guzzlers. Hybrids can be smaller, cheaper, lighter and gentler on the grid. Each of these matter. Heavier cars cause significantly higher road wear [1], particulate pollution [2] and occupy more space. EVs by necessity, are heavier. This is especially evident in America's favorite product categories : SUVs and Trucks. The Ford- F150 lightning is 1.5x…

I disagree. The sustainable alternative is to get an EV for 98% of the time and rent a purpose-built vehicle for the edge cases whether those edge cases are for long distance, towing, or hauling.

Let the rental companies keep and maintain the gas cars.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#293

Post by fnordpiglet »

Hugsun wrote: post #277
elif wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After taking an EV on a ~6500 mile road trip a couple months ago, I never want to road trip in a gas car ever again. Highlights: - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station - stop anywhere and sleep with air conditioning for free - never have to use gas station bathroom - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops - also no gas cars dr…

Which bathrooms were you using instead? How much charge do you get on these breaks? I assume they aren't charging stations.

Most charging stations are at restaurants or shopping malls. Yes, they are high power charging stations. I usually get 300 or so miles in my bathroom / beverage breaks. A full charge if I’m eating.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#294

Post by neodndndn »

mvdtnz wrote: post #161
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The edge cases are the important cases though. Those parties I throw are the highlight of my year. My parents staying here with me is important to me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah I have a desk job but that landscaping work I do in my weekend is one of my favourite hobbies. I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me. I refuse to average my entire life style down to my median day. My…

[flagged]

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#295

Post by [deleted] »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

[deleted]

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#296

Post by justinl33 »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Completely agree with your point. I just find it ironic that I mainly hear this argument from people who just bought an EV and are trying to justify it. They'll say "and oh there's the range problem, but 93% of my trips are less than 30 miles anyways".

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#297

Post by anovikov »

metabagel wrote: post #281
anovikov wrote: post #248

Sure it was approached not in the way it had to be. It requires a long-term commitment - longer than duration of one administration. And it requires actual mandates, like we do in EU. Simply put, there are norms of how many electric cars should be sold and on the road in every country every year, and countries face steep fines if they don't. There is no way to object apart from leaving the EU which means instant econ…

The American system of government has fairly onerous limits on federal power. We have been fairly clever at subverting those limits, but setting state by state mandates for EVs on the road doesn’t sound like an easy lift to me.

Then it is bound to fail and will only happen in a very uncomfortable, to say the least, manner where fuel for gas cars will have to be cut off due to global warming. U.S. does not exist in a vacuum and no country will be able to just say "nah" when it's time to go net zero and everyone else did it already. Time to get things more centralised, more organised, more orderly, more long-term. Somehow when an itemised, step by step, detailed plan with minute regulatory details to enforce it, that spans 30+ years, is adopted in EU, no one laughs at it, people know it will work because there are clean cut mechanisms of enforcement that go above national level (and politics in European Parliament isn't at all populist unlike national level one).

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#298

Post by ttfkam »

simplyluke wrote: post #101
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

“Never cross a river that is on average 4 feet deep” comes to mind here, to borrow from Taleb. Most people I know take annual or more frequent road trips for travel, sport, or to visit family in neighboring states. These aren’t edge cases, they’re normal and predictable parts of peoples lives.

So own an EV and rent the SUV, camper, hybrid, whatever once or twice a year. Normal and predictable events can get good discounts with advance reservation. Obviously if the trips are more frequent, eg. monthly, the economics will shift toward an ICE vehicle.

But >90% of folks can probably just rent once or twice a year.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#299

Post by bonestamp2 »

ttfkam wrote: post #292
screye wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The sustainable alternative to EVs is hybrids, not gas guzzlers. Hybrids can be smaller, cheaper, lighter and gentler on the grid. Each of these matter. Heavier cars cause significantly higher road wear [1], particulate pollution [2] and occupy more space. EVs by necessity, are heavier. This is especially evident in America's favorite product categories : SUVs and Trucks. The Ford- F150 lightning is 1.5x…

I disagree. The sustainable alternative is to get an EV for 98% of the time and rent a purpose-built vehicle for the edge cases whether those edge cases are for long distance, towing, or hauling. Let the rental companies keep and maintain the gas cars.

I agree, but most people don't want to think that way.

Plugin hybrids are a great answer for those people, but they're not buying those either. I mean, roughly 90% of car trips in the US are under 30 miles roundtrip. Therefore, nearly every PHEV is designed to handle 30 miles of fully electric driving. That means they are an EV 90% of the time for the average consumer.

The problem is, most consumers don't understand this so when they see that a PHEV only has 30 miles of range they think that's absurd when most of the time it's actually more than enough. Of course there are outliers and people who they wouldn't be right for, but we're just talking about most people.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#300

Post by brtkdotse »

ttfkam wrote: post #292
screye wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The sustainable alternative to EVs is hybrids, not gas guzzlers. Hybrids can be smaller, cheaper, lighter and gentler on the grid. Each of these matter. Heavier cars cause significantly higher road wear [1], particulate pollution [2] and occupy more space. EVs by necessity, are heavier. This is especially evident in America's favorite product categories : SUVs and Trucks. The Ford- F150 lightning is 1.5x…

I disagree. The sustainable alternative is to get an EV for 98% of the time and rent a purpose-built vehicle for the edge cases whether those edge cases are for long distance, towing, or hauling. Let the rental companies keep and maintain the gas cars.

Every time I suggest “just rent a ICE for the edge case trips” people look at me like I’ve just kicked their dog
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