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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#271

Post by Affric »

elif wrote: post #232
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

After taking an EV on a ~6500 mile road trip a couple months ago, I never want to road trip in a gas car ever again. Highlights: - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station - stop anywhere and sleep with air conditioning for free - never have to use gas station bathroom - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops - also no gas cars dr…

You make it sound like a dream. Where were you road tripping?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#272

Post by morsecodist »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

The whole EV experience seems tailored to suburbia where people can keep their car near their home and drive frequently on short trips. Many of them have the EV as a second car to circumvent the road trip issue.

I live in a mildly dense city and a lot of my neighborhood uses street parking. I almost never drive for short trips and a major reason I got a car at all is for longer more infrequent trips. I'd be happy to take a train instead but it is twice the price of flying and takes twice as long as driving. Instead of trains we'll get EVs and their infrastructure subsidized, no matter how much it ends up costing.

It's not just direct subsidy. Some local ordinances now require buildings to provide chargers so people who don't drive will pay more in housing costs.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#273

Post by jakebasile »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

When planning for the scale of a new system, do you plan for the worst case or best case? Which method would create a more resilient system?

Put another way, if a service can only respond to 93% if requests, I wouldn't call it a very well architected service. EVs have a long way to go for many people.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#274

Post by zeroping »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #231

This article makes me even more dismayed at the fact that the Chevy Volt never really took off. I really believe it would be the perfect car for most people: 1. As the article points out, most people drive less than 40 miles a day, and the Volt provided 40-50 miles of electric range. 2. Since the battery is relatively small for an EV, no expensive home charging system is needed - just plug it into a normal 120V outle…

I agree, but noting one downside to the Volt and other plug-in hybrids: the complexity.

There's a lot that can go wrong when a car is in any kind of collision. EV have 'scary' high voltage cables that many repair shops don't want to deal with, but they make up for it with simplicity. Plug-in hybrids have almost all the complexity of both, combined.

My Volt ate some road debris, and it punctured an oil intercooler and two of the three glycol water loops, partly because the radiators sit quite low in a very full engine bay. I suspect many EVs would have been simpler to repair.

The complexity also just makes the product harder for potential customers to understand.

Now, I still like the car, and it has paid for the price premium in saved gasoline. Plug-in hybrids are a great middle ground between ICE and EV. I just wish the concept had sold better.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#275

Post by fredsmith219 »

At this point in time, you’re buying into the EV charging network when you buy the vehicle. In the U.S., that means Tesla. I just bought a Model Y. We really liked the Mustang and the F-150 Lightening, but the Tesla has the charging network. We drove from Detroit to Chicago last weekend and had no problem because there were ample Supercharger stations along the way. If we go to Northern Michigan it becomes a bit trickier but I think we can make it in warmer weather. It’s just where the infrastructure is at this point. We have an ICE vehicle for when we don’t think the EV would make it, but the EV is our daily driver.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#276

Post by barrysteve »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The edge cases aren't fully captured.

That accountant driving to Lowes twice a year to pick up mulch, finds out he's missing a shovel or a reticulation fitting or something unexpected. The pickup truck is a solid work horse in new edge cases.

There's nothing worse than finding out that your hatchback can't fit a ladder you needed to buy because you broke off a section of the gutter when you tried to pull a broken branch off your roof.

A guest bedroom is often extra storage, kids sleep-over room and a communal signal that there's a spare bed for friends and family if they ever need it. The social signalling is worth the price of admission for the home owner.

Just saying the edge cases cover more outcomes than direct use.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#277

Post by Hugsun »

elif wrote: post #232
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

After taking an EV on a ~6500 mile road trip a couple months ago, I never want to road trip in a gas car ever again. Highlights: - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station - stop anywhere and sleep with air conditioning for free - never have to use gas station bathroom - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops - also no gas cars dr…

Which bathrooms were you using instead?

How much charge do you get on these breaks? I assume they aren't charging stations.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#278

Post by wolverine876 »

elif wrote: post #232
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

After taking an EV on a ~6500 mile road trip a couple months ago, I never want to road trip in a gas car ever again. Highlights: - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station - stop anywhere and sleep with air conditioning for free - never have to use gas station bathroom - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops - also no gas cars dr…

How are these easier in EVs than in ICE cars?

> - by the 2.5-3.5 hour mark between charges, I'm ready for a 25-35 min break and its somewhere nice and not a gas station

What does that have to do with the power source? You can take breaks anywhere in an ICE vehicle too.

> - never have to use gas station bathroom

Can't you use the same bathrooms in ICE vehicles? Are they EV only? Does your EV include a half-bath?

> - never have to calculate any routes or fuel stops

I don't do that in ICE vehicles; gas stations are so common that I just find one when I need it. Is your EV's range greater? Also, aren't EV chargers harder to find that gas stations?

> not deal with strangers

To each their own, but back to our primate ancestors we are social beings.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#279

Post by jnsaff2 »

mvdtnz wrote: post #161
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The edge cases are the important cases though. Those parties I throw are the highlight of my year. My parents staying here with me is important to me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah I have a desk job but that landscaping work I do in my weekend is one of my favourite hobbies. I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me. I refuse to average my entire life style down to my median day. My…

Aaand the rational actor theory on which large part of economics is based just flew out of the window.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#280

Post by jnsaff2 »

screye wrote: post #242
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I disagree. The sustainable alternative to EVs is hybrids, not gas guzzlers. Hybrids can be smaller, cheaper, lighter and gentler on the grid. Each of these matter. Heavier cars cause significantly higher road wear [1], particulate pollution [2] and occupy more space. EVs by necessity, are heavier. This is especially evident in America's favorite product categories : SUVs and Trucks. The Ford- F150 lightning is 1.5x…

Damage to roads goes up with the FOURTH power of axle weight. ALL passenger cars create insignificant road wear compared to heavy trucks.

https://x.com/ajisuzu1/status/1681123111364620294?s=46

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