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SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

nytimes.com

191–200 of 322 posts

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#191
post #48

If I was openly criticizing the boss my expectation would be I was putting my continued employment at risk. That ain’t rocket science.

Speaking up against your employer should not threaten your job. That's how you get an echo chamber of horrible decisions made by the people who just so happen to sit at the top. Especially in a company run by someone who claims to "seek truths" like Musk. However, it certainly would not make you popular with the true believers in the room. You would definitely feel the discontent amongst your peers in a conviction le…

>Speaking up against your employer should not threaten your job.

if you mean this as advice, ok, but if you mean it as "this needs to be a law", what are you even talking about, authoritarian much?

>That's how you get an echo chamber of horrible decisions made by the people who just so happen to sit at the top.

firing employees for speaking out might get you, the employer, an echo chamber, but perhaps for your product an echo chamber is the business strategy you chose. Steve Jobs was famous for his attention to detail, reinforcing and staying on message, "hold it up just this way, show everybody, look how thin it is! echo that or don't work here." Freedom needs to include the freedom to set a strategy and stick to it, and if setting the strategy is not your job but your dream, find that job for yourself, don't think you should get paid to undermine it for somebody else.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#192

I was pretty dismayed that Gwynne Shotwell's actions were so blatantly egregious. I'd expect something like that (or probably worse) from Musk, but my view of Shotwell was that she was always "the adult in the room" at SpaceX. So a bit sad to see that she didn't even realize the illegality of her actions (as other comments mentioned, all her actions were clearly put in writing).

The NLRB only collects tens of millions in fines, nationwide, per year [0]. Shotwell probably understood the illegality of her actions quite well—and more importantly understood that the benefits of chilling labor activism in a 30k-employee company far outweighed the miniscule costs. In support of this: Shotwell not only fired these employees, but made a loud spectacle out of it—emailing the entire company to announc…

What a goddamn joke. NLRB needs to be dissolved or given actual teeth to levy meaningful and impactful fines.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#193

I was pretty dismayed that Gwynne Shotwell's actions were so blatantly egregious. I'd expect something like that (or probably worse) from Musk, but my view of Shotwell was that she was always "the adult in the room" at SpaceX. So a bit sad to see that she didn't even realize the illegality of her actions (as other comments mentioned, all her actions were clearly put in writing).

Keep in mind she answers to Musk, you can't assume she had the leeway in this instance, especially since he likely got a bee in his bonnet about it and took an uncompromising position.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NLRB only collects tens of millions in fines, nationwide, per year [0]. Shotwell probably understood the illegality of her actions quite well—and more importantly understood that the benefits of chilling labor activism in a 30k-employee company far outweighed the miniscule costs. In support of this: Shotwell not only fired these employees, but made a loud spectacle out of it—emailing the entire company to announc…

What a goddamn joke. NLRB needs to be dissolved or given actual teeth to levy meaningful and impactful fines.

I think your average Republican congressperson would rather be buried alive than have that happen.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#196

It's an incredible reminder to people that HR are not there for the staff. I sometimes forget myself but it's one of the most plain scams in the workforce.

"At SpaceX the rockets may be reusable, but the people who build them are treated as expendable" -Paige Holland-Thielen

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of meritocracy. And abuse of power on your bosses part. Don't know why so many in this thread seems to support obviously corrupt behavior.

Is it? If I have serious on-going disagreements with my CEO's strategy and tactics to lead the company and I choose to take those disagreements public in a scorched earth style, I fully expect that I'd get sacked for it. And I think I should be (presumably with the typical severance for a other-than-cause termination). I'm standing here thinking "yup, that's about right" and other posters are thinking this is "so not…

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a similar vein, the employees don't own their position at the company. Employment arrangements are made through mutual agreements. > If the company says something an employee doesn't like, the employee is free to leave. > If the employee says something the company doesn't like, the company is free to dismiss the employee. If an employee loses their job they may not be able to pay rent or buy groceries. If SpaceX…

> It's not an equal playing field, hence why workers protections are important. That's why unemployment is important. None of these factors prevent someone from being let go without notice. Those points aren't germane to whether someone can be laid off. Criticizing the CEO isn't a protected activity in any event.

But criticizing the way the rules are being enforced and the selective nature of them IS a protected activity. This is clearly detailed in the article and suit.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NLRB only collects tens of millions in fines, nationwide, per year [0]. Shotwell probably understood the illegality of her actions quite well—and more importantly understood that the benefits of chilling labor activism in a 30k-employee company far outweighed the miniscule costs. In support of this: Shotwell not only fired these employees, but made a loud spectacle out of it—emailing the entire company to announc…

What a goddamn joke. NLRB needs to be dissolved or given actual teeth to levy meaningful and impactful fines.

Just open it up to private lawsuits with punitive damages attached. Lawyers will be on these kind of slam-dunk cases instantly.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking up against your employer should not threaten your job. That's how you get an echo chamber of horrible decisions made by the people who just so happen to sit at the top. Especially in a company run by someone who claims to "seek truths" like Musk. However, it certainly would not make you popular with the true believers in the room. You would definitely feel the discontent amongst your peers in a conviction le…

> Speaking up against your employer should not threaten your job. if you mean this as advice, ok, but if you mean it as "this needs to be a law", what are you even talking about, authoritarian much? > That's how you get an echo chamber of horrible decisions made by the people who just so happen to sit at the top. firing employees for speaking out might get you, the employer , an echo chamber, but perhaps for your pro…

They weren’t criticizing the product direction. The letter was about Elon’s tweets and sexual harassment.
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