Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, so let’s add an override.
That system had an override didn’t it, just wasn’t well known?
Then let’s make it obvious and include it in the training.
JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
211–220 of 515 posts
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know people who are already at the "if driving takes less than 8 hours, I'd rather drive than fly" level. Every additional inconvenience (or psychological impediment) added to the safest mode of long-distance travel has a risk of decreasing overall safety. It's not particularly relevant to an international flight into Japan, but the extent to which increasing annoyance/instilling fear of airline passengers causing…
I once traveled for business from Salt Lake City to Fort Collins, Colorado. 1/2 hour to the airport + get to the airport 2 hours before flight + 1 hour direct flight to Denver + 1/2 hour to deplane + 1/2 hour to get bags + 1/2 hour to get rental car + 1 hour drive to Fort Collins. Total 6 hours. Seems like it actually totalled 7 but I don't remember where the extra time was. Versus 7 hours drive time from Salt Lake t…
I pretty much have gotten to where I only fly if driving is impossible (e.g. crossing an ocean).
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#213Could the accident be linked to the clarity of radio instructions? I saw a discussion suggesting the DH aircraft might have been unsure about the correct runway to use, C1 or C5. My aim isn't to critique the English proficiency of non-native speakers, especially those from non-Proto-Indo-European linguistic backgrounds. As a non-native English speaker myself, I understand the challenges. However, I found it trully ha…
> Could the accident be linked to the clarity of radio instructions? I saw a discussion suggesting the DH aircraft might have been unsure about the correct runway to use, C1 or C5. From my comment in part of the discussion thread[0]: -- For the ATC, see: * https://archive.liveatc.net/rjtt/RJTT-Twr-TCA-Jan-02-2024-08... * Via: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/35868205-post57.html 13:13 JL516 continue approach. 14:53 la…
All of these ATC feeds are from SDR stations close by that monitor the same frequencies. Your local airport sounds better because someone has a better SDR rig to receive it. Generally the audio is crystal clear in the cockpit and on the ground — it’s just that the SDR stations don’t have as good antennae as the real systems do.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#214Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
My guess is the number of lives saved by your proposal ("forcing people to not have any distractions during take-offs and landings") would be well under one annually, certainly below "hundreds". The total number of plane deaths is already low, and the fraction where a slightly more efficient evacuation would have made a difference is even lower. I think we may also disagree about how much it matters to subject ~4.5B…
I'm not against that type of argument. But do think that when a 1000 lifetimes are sliced into 5 minute chunks, those 5 minutes become less useful. It is false to equate this to loosing a 1000 lifetimes of productive effort. Like if this time is added up, it equates to killing a 1000 people. Think because airline safety is so good, that it is easy to come up with these types of large number arguments. Fallacy of Larg…
I don't think that LW post says what you think it's saying? It's coining the term "fallacy of large numbers" to apply to the situation where someone is incorrectly asserting their situation has sufficiently large numbers to apply "law of large numbers" style reasoning.
I agree that 5 minutes to each of 1000 people, especially 5min on your phone on a plane, are less valuable than 5k minutes to one person. But I don't think they're so massively less valuable that we can ignore them as trivial!
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
My guess is the number of lives saved by your proposal ("forcing people to not have any distractions during take-offs and landings") would be well under one annually, certainly below "hundreds". The total number of plane deaths is already low, and the fraction where a slightly more efficient evacuation would have made a difference is even lower. I think we may also disagree about how much it matters to subject ~4.5B…
Society came to a point were nobody can be bothered with the smallest inconvenience anymore for something greater then oneself. Pretty sad actually.
I'm completely on board with making sacrifices for something greater than oneself, but since there are so many opportunities to make such sacrifices if we don't prioritize we'll spend all our efforts in places where the effects are minimal.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
The number of fatalities and injuries seems minuscule because it's normalised over distance traveled. This makes sense, because air travel is the only way to make voyages over this distance. But it also doesn't make sense for the same reason -- it's stupid to compare a 6000 mile holiday flight with a 6000 mile holiday road trip, because people don't routinely make those. You're still more likely to get injured on an…
I know people who are already at the "if driving takes less than 8 hours, I'd rather drive than fly" level. Every additional inconvenience (or psychological impediment) added to the safest mode of long-distance travel has a risk of decreasing overall safety. It's not particularly relevant to an international flight into Japan, but the extent to which increasing annoyance/instilling fear of airline passengers causing…
That’s me. But for totally different reasons. I’m a 4-5 hour round trip by car to the nearest airport that actually flys anywhere. So unless it’s more than about a 8-10 hour drive, it’s faster (and way cheaper) to drive than fly.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#218This never should have happened, and mark my words we’re going to see the same type of accident in the US if we don’t radically rework ATC.
You're implying this is ATC rather than human-error related.
To anyone else jumping to conclusions:
First, please do not jump to conclusions.
Secondly, this incident was in Japan, not the US. Feelings about US ATC should not be a factor in this situation.
Third, wasn't there a recent runway collision (wing clipped a tail) in the US where the pilot was quick to blame ATC on the radio, but it turns out that pilot entered the runway without permission? (initial conclusions are often wrong)
Disclaimer: I am a US ATC - The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily those of FAA.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt your “other domains” are as safe and reliable as the aviation industry. An automated system may be possible to make, but will require a huge undertaking to bring even close to the current safety standards, and would introduce its own safety issues
If I step into the elevator door, it doesn’t squash me and the elevator won’t move.
Usually. Liveleak will show hundreds of exceptions however.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#220I noticed in the video that many people onboard A359 were wearing masks. Would those have helped significantly to prevent smoke inhalation?
Not at all.