JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames • Hacker News Board

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#91

Post by epolanski » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 1:49 PM UTC

bronco21016 wrote: post #56

konschubert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is crazy to me that all of this still relies on humans giving verbal clearance over radio. Shouldn’t there be a universal standard to communicate clearances to the computer systems of the airplanes and other runway vehicles? And shouldn’t there be a small, well-tested core system that makes sure clearance never conflicts? How on earth does all this still depend on skilled individuals not making a mistake? We got o…

I can’t speak to international ops because I’m just not sure. In the US though, we have runway status lights. At all the runway intersections there are lights embedded in the runway that will tell you if the runway is safe or not. A radar based system is constantly monitoring the runway and will light it up red if there is a potential for collision. The system works independent of any input from ATC. I think it’s act…

And yet in US it's also standard practice to have airplanes takeoff on the same runway at the same time if the preceding airplane is small enough to not create vortices.

Note how no one did anything wrong really in this case:

https://simpleflying.com/march-2020-air-canada-incident/

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#92

Post by hn_throwaway_69 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:00 PM UTC

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #83

steveBK123 wrote: post #59

This is why you follow cabin crew instructions and DO NOT CARRY YOUR LUGGAGE out of the aircraft in an emergency. Your luggage is not worth more than a fellow passengers life. Contrast this with evacuation footage of western passenger planes..

Indeed. It’s a good idea to keep your passport and some small USB drives (password database, Linux image for installation on a new laptop, etc.) on your person instead of in your luggage when you fly.

>password database, Linux image for installation on a new laptop

Heh. Imagine surviving a plane crash. Everyone is busy calling their loved ones, and I'm busy setting up my new Linux distribution on a laptop bought in duty free, using the Linux image in my pocket.

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#93

Post by adastra22 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

somewhereoutth wrote: post #68

I'd suggest that the miracle escape is testament to ~100? years of evolution of civil aviation safety practices.

5 people died. I wouldn't call it a miracle.

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#94

Post by konschubert » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

throw0101d wrote: post #84

konschubert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is crazy to me that all of this still relies on humans giving verbal clearance over radio. Shouldn’t there be a universal standard to communicate clearances to the computer systems of the airplanes and other runway vehicles? And shouldn’t there be a small, well-tested core system that makes sure clearance never conflicts? How on earth does all this still depend on skilled individuals not making a mistake? We got o…

> Shouldn’t there be a universal standard to communicate clearances to the computer systems of the airplanes and other runway vehicles? And shouldn’t there be a small, well-tested core system that makes sure clearance never conflicts? ATC entering instructions into a computer, then pilots reading and interpreting from their computer, and then operating their plane, probably is slower and the context switches between…

I didn’t say that anyone should enter anything manually into a computer, nor did I claim that a human reading a computer screen is how an automated runway system would ensure safety.

As an aside, humans are not doing a good job at driving cars and should leave that to the computers.

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#95

Post by asylteltine » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:07 PM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #87

There's a PPRUNE thread with the usual mix of comments at https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656665-jal-inci... Comments get more informative (and informed?) down the thread.

Wow that live video really puts the size in perspective. The firefighters are minuscule compared to the plane

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#96

Post by nixass » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:08 PM UTC

First A350 hull loss

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#97

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:10 PM UTC

adastra22 wrote: post #93

somewhereoutth wrote: post #68

I'd suggest that the miracle escape is testament to ~100? years of evolution of civil aviation safety practices.

5 people died. I wouldn't call it a miracle.

>All 379 passengers and crew of a Japan Airlines plane escaped a devastating fire that erupted after it collided with a smaller Coast Guard aircraft at Tokyo’s Haneda airport on Tuesday.

That's 379 lives saved, is the number not important, or is it the ratio?

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#98

Post by squigz » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

squigz wrote: post #89

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? That doesn’t make it incorrect to call it a miracle.

Yes, it does. "a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."

Rather amusing to me how many people are downvoting this comment.

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#99

Post by jefftk » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #72

jefftk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 50%, sure, but 50% of a very small number. How many deaths do you expect keeping passengers from being distracted at these times would prevent? (I expect if you compare that to the number of people inconvenienced by the rule it's a terrible trade off.)

I once heard a wise doctor say that even if the chance of survival for a medical operation is either 10% or 90%, the practical chance the patient is battling is always 50% because he either lives or dies from that operation. Likewise, the chance of someone being in an aviation accident is close to nil (you're more likely to be in a car accident), but you are either going to be in an aviation accident or not (a 50% ch…

> even if the chance of survival for a medical operation is either 10% or 90%, the practical chance the patient is battling is always 50% because he either lives or dies from that operation

I think this is rarely a productive way to think about it. For example, the chance that I might die in the next year is somewhere between 0% and 100%, and actuarial tables put it somewhere around 0.3%. [1] Should I refrain from having a kid because I'd have a "50% chance" of leaving them without a dad before they turned 1?

[1] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames

#100

Post by aaron695 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #59

This is why you follow cabin crew instructions and DO NOT CARRY YOUR LUGGAGE out of the aircraft in an emergency. Your luggage is not worth more than a fellow passengers life. Contrast this with evacuation footage of western passenger planes..

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