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"That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

joethepeacock.blogspot.co.uk

31–40 of 206 posts

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#31
post #17
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture. Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that often means dealing with people that are being dicks, and…

Upvoted you both. Thank you for the civil disagreement that (unfortunately) is part of what makes HN special.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#32
post #17
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture. Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that often means dealing with people that are being dicks, and…

[deleted]

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#33
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

It doesn't necessarily help. I speak from experience: I was homeschooled and it was terrible. I didn't learn the 101 little tricks to make interacting with frustrating people that little bit easier, I didn't learn to empathize with people less smart than me and I didn't develop the social intelligence that I believe is vital for long-term success. Any time I had to interact with anyone I felt terrible and awkward and out of place. When I went to college I was as alienated and lonely as everyone else had been in high school and I still didn't have casual friends because I didn't know how to be friends with anyone who didn't already share my interests. I didn't understand letting other people talk in class, or that school was for learning, not achieving things, or that I could make people happy by listening to things I didn't care about (and in the process learn about interesting things I never knew I'd be interested in.)

When I got a job I didn't understand that jobs are for collaboration, not just achieving things myself. Most team jobs work best if members are able and willing to sublimate their egos for the good of the group: I was busy being smart and weird. I assumed that because I was right everyone else would, of course, agree with me, and so none of my ideas ever got adopted because I didn't know how to enlist people as allies. I was still super lonely and still hadn't learn how to have casual friends (close friends I always had, one or two, mostly other homeschooled kids, but they were people who could put up with me just the way I was, which was kind of an arrogant asshole.)

I eventually sat down and compared myself to people who were less lonely than me and figured out what I could do differently. I realized that I'd rather not be an asshole than be right. I developed an understanding of when and how to ask questions, how to work and, yes, fit in with a group while still keeping myself whole. I learned how to be passionate without being overwhelming.

My kids are going to school. I will fight tooth and nail for a safe environment for them with adults who are on their side and not on the side of the bullies, but I want them to grow up knowing that if you tell your friend to fuck off they will stop being your friend because you are an asshole, not because you are weird. If you are not enjoyable to interact with people won't be your friend because friendship isn't an entitlement: it's a collaborative project. It may be that if you find a huge city you can find someone who doesn't mind being told to fuck off, or maybe even who thinks it is cool, but that doesn't mean that prioritizing your weirdness over the comfort of people around you will lead to a fulfilling social life (especially because those people are likely to tell you to fuck off too). Developing friends will probably have as much to do with how we change and grow as it does with leaving suburbia.

Besides, we have the Internet now. There is no reason kids can't both learn to be part of suburbia and experience the wide world outside of it at the same time.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#34
post #17
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture. Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that often means dealing with people that are being dicks, and…

While high school can be a social learning experience (an awkward one), the outcome of it may not be entirely positive.

In high school, I learned how to smoke, drink, fight, cheat and steal. I almost gave up programming as a hobby because it was weird in the eyes of my peers. I narrowly escaped a life of crime by moving to a different city as soon as I was old enough.

Man, I'm happy to be out of that shit and out of that neighborhood. And almost out of school (finishing my masters').

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#35
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

Lets all hide our weirdness at home. Lets not demonstrate to all miniature societies that weirdness exists in the world and its beautiful. Lets sit at home and wonder why the world is so different from ourselves and loath it.

Even better, lets sit in our manor house on the hill overlooking the world. The kind with the thick iron gates and guard dogs. We can watch all the people outside set the world in a terrible blaze.

It's better to just watch the world burn.

Training your kids to hide from the worlds badness is a net negative in the bigger picture.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#36
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

It's about building their confidence from age 0. It's about making and reinforcing a community of respect for difference wherever you are. And it's about being sure that your kids know they're never really out there all by themselves.

Our kids go to public school, are healthily wonky in different (and wonderful) ways, and have friends who are healthily wonky in other different (and wonderful) ways. We live in a community that, among other things, had spirited discussions about bullying years ago. We live there despite a long daily commute for me because we believe that having a good environment is almost as important as being good parents.

They look to you to tell them what's good and bad. Choose carefully the lessons you give, explicit or other.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#37

By the way, what's with the "even the furry had more friends than me" bigotry? Would "even the gay had more friends than me" fly?

Considering the fact that he speaks fondly of him outside of that line, I assumed he was being facetious and playing off the common social view of furries as loner weirdos. Not that that makes it okay, but I don't think it was meant to be harmful.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#38
post #17
post #7

The author's observation about high school is exactly why my kids, by default, will be home schooled. If they decide they want to go to public or private school at some point, I'll let them. Unlike a lot of kids that end up getting bullied, they'll know that their attendance is completely optional. I'm not looking to shelter them from the real world, only the fake miniature society that exists at school.

While I understand your point of view based on this one observation, I think this is a terrible idea if you look at the big picture. Whether they get bullied or not, high school is an extremely important time for kids to gain social skills and learn how to deal with people. Dealing with people is one of the most important skills you can have, period. And that often means dealing with people that are being dicks, and…

I would add that, if you have time to home school, you have time to help your kids build accomplishments that build confidence that carries through other people's crap.

A kid who achieves at sports / art / theater / computers / whatever has reason to _know_ they aren't little. Kids need help to organize themselves to achieve because the links between planning, persisting, studying fundamentals, spotting and handling emotional challenges and the emotional rewards are diffuse. It's hard to build the positive associations that build habits, and that's where parents can help. (Yes, it's hard to find the line between encouraging and demanding.)

Home schooling might be a necessary response to the schooling available. But social deprivation is a downside of any home schooling program, kids must learn to deal with other people. Better to meet frictions by building the kids up, rather than avoiding the frictions in the first place.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#39

By the way, what's with the "even the furry had more friends than me" bigotry? Would "even the gay had more friends than me" fly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

'Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot," a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group.[1]'

It's contrast, not bigotry. Bigotry is when a jock beats up a furry for being a furry.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#40
The sentiment of the article is great, but a lot of it just doesn't quite ring true.

When the auther starts going on about other people being losers, and him being a winner, because they do things he doesn't personally value, you start to wonder if he is really free from defining himself in contrast to the guys who excluded him years ago. Life isn't a competition like that.

There's a classic transformation you see a lot of high-functioning geeks go through when they leave school, and start earning more money, living more cosmopolitan lifestyles and meeting more interesting people than those they left behind - they flip around and start juding their ex-classmates negatively in just the way their classmates judged them. You see it a lot on places like reddit, and I think it comes through a little in this article.

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