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Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

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Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#461

Post by genman »

telotortium wrote: post #450
genman wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that quite contrary is true - we do have moral obligation to stop genocide of Ukrainians by Russia. Your description is also not factually correct considering multiple revolutions in Ukraine that tried to set the course toward NATO and EU but you have to also take into account that Ukraine is also too important for Russia and Ukraine was actively attacked by Russian intelligence services and finally dir…

"Look to where just cowardly moving out of Afghanistan has taken us. Another humiliating retreat would be a colossal blow to US." It's not about humiliation at this point. The US actually cannot beat these countries straight up in a shooting war anymore. The combination of post-Cold War deindustrialization, the lack of morale after 2 decades of fruitless wars, and the politicization of the military reducing its appea…

Yes, you are correct, but only partially. Nothing stopped NATO countries to ramp up their military production - defense industry is awaiting for it. Where are the shells promised to Ukraine by EU countries? They are not available because companies can't make them fast enough, no, they are not available because politicians haven't made large enough orders. It is not that Western countries can't ramp up their production. If Russia can, so can they for the fraction of cost for their economies. Unfortunately we have a period of impotent politicians in West instead of period of strong politicians. Hopefully we'll survive.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#463

Post by rayiner »

mikewarot wrote: post #442
sbierwagen wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game-theoretically the US wouldn't want to drop support for Israel in response to attacks on shipping-- that would just result more in attacks on shipping by any country in the world that wants to force the US to do something. If the US wanted to drop Israel, they would only do so after a years-long bombing campaign that terrorized and depopulated Yemen, to make it clear that the US cannot be blackmailed into droppin…

[flagged]

A minority group reclaiming territory from the people who colonized them isn’t “genocide.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant

It’s like Elon Musk complaining about the “genocide” of Afrikaners. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/01/musk-south-a....

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#464

Post by mikewarot »

rayiner wrote: post #463
mikewarot wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A minority group reclaiming territory from the people who colonized them isn’t “genocide.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Levant It’s like Elon Musk complaining about the “genocide” of Afrikaners. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/01/musk-south-a... .

What does history from the 7th century have to do with Israel killing their own citizens in 2024?

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#465

Post by tga_d »

pydry wrote: post #452
tga_d wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not reacting" how? There's been an ongoing war for almost a decade now.

When was the last time they attacked US shipping?

That seems like an extremely narrow definition of "reacting," but even then, pretty regularly over many years, actually. In addition to the attacks earlier last month linked in TFA, here's a couple articles showing that this has been an ongoing thing:

https://news.usni.org/2016/10/11/uss-mason-fired-3-missiles-...

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2020/03/houthis-incr...

This isn't to dispute evidence of US war crimes, to be clear, but claiming the Houthis have just been doing nothing in response does not line up with the overwhelming evidence.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#466

Post by r00fus »

adolph wrote: post #307
keefle wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be less about it carrying anything specific and more about who owns it or where its headed. This is part of an effort by the houthis to put pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian aid in (their declared reason at least)). Most of the ships they target are either own fully or partially by Israeli companies, or are headed to Israeli ports

> Most of the ships they target are either own fully or partially by Israeli companies, or are headed to Israeli ports As I understand it, this is not true. If you have a citation listing strikes with manifests, I’d appreciate being able to update my priors. Wikipedia lists 17 strikes. I see that 3 have some Israeli ownership or port of call: Galaxy Leader, Symi, and Strinda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_invo…

It doesn’t matter that some ships weren’t nominally owned by Israel but in reality owned by shell corporations in turn owned by Israel-supporting billionaires.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#467

Post by dang »

johnnyworker wrote: post #303
edanm wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, you obviously care a lot about this topic, but I think you're really wrong on your facts. For the record, I'm Israeli, so take what I say with your appropriate level of skepticism - but I'm going to at least try to get across what I think you're wrong about. I hope you approach what I say with an open mind, though many people tend not to (in any discussion of anything, not just about this). > And when you say "…

> Israel has the means to kill far more people, if it wanted to - it just doesn't. That you say this and still come on to me with that "I share your values" stuff is just gold.

You've been breaking the site guidelines badly in this thread—e.g. in the parent comment, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38829675, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38824306.

Please don't do that on HN, no matter how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please make your substantive points thoughtfully. This topic raises a lot of strong feelings in everyone. If your feelings prevent you from commenting within the site guidelines, please wait to comment until that's no longer the case.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is important for preserving the community here, and it's important for another reason as well: to the extent that what you're arguing for is true, by posting aggressively and abusively you end up discrediting the truth that you're arguing for. That's not only not in your interest—it hurts everyone. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. We've had to ask you this at least once before, so this problem is not limited to this topic.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#468

Post by dang »

mrtksn wrote: post #408
tptacek wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're putting in a lot of energy to try to reason with someone who isn't going to be reasoned with, and really it's just not reasonable to expect to resolve one of the world's most complex conflicts in a 20+-message deep HN thread. I'm just writing this because I'd want someone to write something similar to me if I was locked into a thread like this.

I was completely reasoned in the necessity of killing 10 thousand women and kids the last few months, what are you talking about? My favorite act of necessary extermination of civilians by IDF is this one: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unlawful-killings-in-gaz...

You've been breaking the site guidelines badly in this thread—e.g. here and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38826719.

Please don't do that on HN, no matter how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please make your substantive points thoughtfully. This topic raises a lot of strong feelings in everyone. If your feelings prevent you from commenting within the site guidelines, please wait to comment until that's no longer the case.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is important for preserving the community here, and it's important for another reason as well: to the extent that what you're arguing for is true, by posting aggressively and abusively you end up discrediting the truth that you're arguing for. That's not only not in your interest—it hurts everyone. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. We've had to ask you this more than once before, so it's clear that this problem is not limited to this topic.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#469

Post by mrtksn »

dang wrote: post #468
mrtksn wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was completely reasoned in the necessity of killing 10 thousand women and kids the last few months, what are you talking about? My favorite act of necessary extermination of civilians by IDF is this one: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unlawful-killings-in-gaz...

You've been breaking the site guidelines badly in this thread—e.g. here and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38826719 . Please don't do that on HN, no matter how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please make your substantive points thoughtfully. This topic raises a lot of strong feelings in everyone. If your feelings prevent you from commenting within the site guidelines, please wait to comment until that's…

It's a fair point and I don't object with this comment being flagged but please notice that the parent one is calling me unreasonable when I try to be polite and provide thorough reasoning about my position on the issue.

Is that O.K. really? They don't even address me when talking about me, that's why I felt the need to reply with a bit of a sarcasm and emotional tone. I also provided a document by the United Nations to keep this grounded. I don't know how this is less substantive than the parent comment talking about me in a sneering manner.

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