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Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

danluu.com

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Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#251

Post by gkbrk »

londons_explore wrote: post #249
gkbrk wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I do a Google search in an Incognito tab for "how to download youtube videos", the first two results I get are the following. - https://msunduziassociation.online/perfect-online-videos/ - https://gssaction.org/program-all-in-one-media-solutions/ I would certainly put those in the "Terrible" category like the author.

Did you click either of those links? Both seem to do the job of downloading a youtube link to mp4 for free.

Did you click either of those links? They are not YouTube video downloaders, they just link to another downloader. There is nowhere on those links to even put a YouTube URL.

Are you seriously suggesting that a website with the following "About us" with only a link to another YouTube video downloader is itself a good YouTube video downloader?

> Good Samaritan Support Action is to reawaken the Body of Christ to receiving the extravagant love of The Father, as well as our call to respond to this love by loving God with all of our hearts, souls, strengths, and minds. In order for people’s hearts to be linked to the heart of our Heavenly Father, we want to foster and facilitate the establishment of a culture of love in our churches and ministries.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#252

Post by Dah00n »

gkbrk wrote: post #232
Dah00n wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get savefrom.net in both Incognito and normal tabs, uBlock or not. I have no idea why you get crap results that are somehow different. uBlock doesn't change google results in Firefox for me at all. It seems you get crap added , not removed.

I searched with Chrome, perhaps that's the difference. Firefox also blocks some ads out-of-the-box even without uBlock, so maybe it was already blocked. It could also be related to targeting, like time zone, location, IP address, age group etc.

I get the same search result in Edge as in Firefox. Can't test in Chrome, but something seems strange.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#253

Post by Dah00n »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #244
Dah00n wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Searching for "fedplot" looking for https://github.com/sergiocorreia in the results: Qwant: Result 1 Bing: Result 1 Google: Result 2 Marginalia: Zero results ChatGPT 3.5: Some Federal Reserve dot plot nonsense and no useful results.

You're never going to find github results on Marginalia as long as they block 3rd party crawlers :-/

Well, zero results are better than spam ;-)

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#254

Post by marginalia_nu »

poulpy123 wrote: post #209

I'm sorry but the very first request is completely wrong. When people search for a YouTube downloader, they want a website that allows to download a YouTube video, not a command line tool. And the first results given by Google do that. I'm one of the people that think Google search became bad but it's not because of the kind of search

That's the tricky mind-reading aspect about search intent.

Different people have varying expectations as to what they want to find with the same query. I'd definitely want yt-dlp in favor of some website.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#255

Post by tantalor »

londons_explore wrote: post #249
gkbrk wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I do a Google search in an Incognito tab for "how to download youtube videos", the first two results I get are the following. - https://msunduziassociation.online/perfect-online-videos/ - https://gssaction.org/program-all-in-one-media-solutions/ I would certainly put those in the "Terrible" category like the author.

Did you click either of those links? Both seem to do the job of downloading a youtube link to mp4 for free.

Those are both garbage/scam sites

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#256

Post by haizhung »

What always confuses me about the „search has gotten so bad“ mentality is that it is often based on anecdotal evidence at best, and anecdotal recollection at worst.

Like, sure, I have the impression that search got worse over the last years, but .. has it really? How could you tell?

And, honestly, this should be a verifiable claim; you can just try the top N search terms from Google trends or whatever and see how they perform. It should be easy to make a benchmark, and yet no one (who complains about this issue) ever bothers to make one.

Dan at least started to provide actual evidence and criteria by which he would score results, but even he only looked at 5 examples. Which really is a small sample size to make any general claims.

So I am left to wonder why there are so many posts about the sentiment that search got worse without anyone ever verifying that claim.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#257

Post by ysavir »

imiric wrote: post #89
ysavir wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In particular I block Youtube, not because they aren't sometimes correct, but because I don't want videos polluting the regular results - it just takes too long to get info from videos. Funnily enough, lately I've been prioritizing YT videos more when searching. So many sites now are just regurgitated SEO farms with minimal quality, and easy to see why: it's minimal effort to produce and cheap to host. But making a…

> But making a video takes time and effort, so has a much higher barrier to use as a click farm. > The mainstream channels aren't all that useful, but there's a ton of "old web" style videos (some even recent) passionately providing details for almost anything you'd think to search. And they're a gold mine. This won't be the case for long. YT is already starting to be polluted with spam and AI generated content, whic…

One critical difference is the date attached to youtube videos. It's easy to verify that a video was made before this tech was available, but you can't do that with websites, or search engine result pages.

It does limit utility for more modern needs, unfortunately.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#258

Post by anonymoushn »

haizhung wrote: post #256

What always confuses me about the „search has gotten so bad“ mentality is that it is often based on anecdotal evidence at best, and anecdotal recollection at worst. Like, sure, I have the impression that search got worse over the last years, but .. has it really? How could you tell? And, honestly, this should be a verifiable claim; you can just try the top N search terms from Google trends or whatever and see how the…

Probably for the same reason that there are so many more posts about anything that make claims than that explore evidence systematically, especially when the people making the posts stand to gain nothing by spending their time that way.

I encounter claims that "protobuf is faster than json" pretty regularly but it seems like nobody has actually benchmarked this. Typical protobuf decoder benchmarks say that protobuf decodes ~5x slower than json, and I don't think it's ~5x smaller for the same document, but I'm also not dedicating my weekend to convincing other people about this.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#259

Post by ysavir »

plagiarist wrote: post #55
ysavir wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In particular I block Youtube, not because they aren't sometimes correct, but because I don't want videos polluting the regular results - it just takes too long to get info from videos. Funnily enough, lately I've been prioritizing YT videos more when searching. So many sites now are just regurgitated SEO farms with minimal quality, and easy to see why: it's minimal effort to produce and cheap to host. But making a…

Do you have some tips for finding concise videos that answer the question you are asking? I am finding more and more obvious LLM bullshit in results, so I am willing to try some other tactics. But I am not ready to spend the minutes watching videos to see if it is actually relevant or a waste of time, always artificially long to increase ad revenue.

Wish I did, but here you're at the algorithm's mercy, unfortunately. One possibility is subbing/accruing watch time on channels that you find provide you the right value, so that the algorithm might recommend similar channels on other subject matters.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#260

Post by marginalia_nu »

haizhung wrote: post #256

What always confuses me about the „search has gotten so bad“ mentality is that it is often based on anecdotal evidence at best, and anecdotal recollection at worst. Like, sure, I have the impression that search got worse over the last years, but .. has it really? How could you tell? And, honestly, this should be a verifiable claim; you can just try the top N search terms from Google trends or whatever and see how the…

I think the point he's trying to make that the search results page from the mainstream search engines are a minefield of scams that a regular person would have difficulty navigating safely.

If he was looking at relevance, yours would be a solid point, but since most of the emphasis is on harm, a smaller sample works. Like "we found used needles in 3 out of 5 playgrounds" doesn't typically garner requests for p-values and error bars.

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