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"No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

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Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#141

Post by bluGill »

altairTF wrote: post #62
legitster wrote: post #9

My grandfather worked in a metal shop for 30 years after he served in Korea. I remember him telling me they switched to Chinese made steel in the 70s because of the quality problems they were having with American made steel. Being out West, they were somewhat more free from the political/social/union pressure to use American commodities.

The paradox of rights(don't quote me, i just made this up). In wealthier societies, demands for greater worker rights from the government increase. This can lead to more bureaucracy and higher labor costs, potentially making third-world countries with lower regulations more attractive for importing goods or outsourcing production. Countries already operates in a libertarian interaction with each others. I find these…

Wealthy countries tend to invest in automation. If you have 1/10 as many workers you can pay them 5 times as much.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#142

Post by zokier »

k7sune wrote: post #119
a1o wrote: post #5

Wasn't US Steel who commissioned the books from a SciFi illustrator to ensure that lots of reference drawing illustrations would have steel in the future and got these books for free available to anyone who called, and they ended up getting famous in the film industry so people ended up always designing futuristic movies with things made of steel like ships and vehicles?

Makes me wonder who supplies the stainless steel used for the starships and cybertrucks. US steel might just turned out to be prescient.

It's rumored to be Outokumpu, but Steel Dynamics also getting mentioned.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#143

Post by michaelt »

nostrademons wrote: post #83
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

This all depends on victory conditions. The U.S. "won" Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan in the same sense that they "won" WW2 - those countries were bombed back into the stone age and the existing governments fell. But WW2 was fought as the U.S. was an ascendant (but not dominant) power among a number of peer rivals, and the U.S. was not the aggressor. It felt like a victory, because we emerged as the dominant p…

> The U.S. "won" Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan in the same sense that they "won" WW2 - those countries were bombed back into the stone age and the existing governments fell.

I feel you're overlooking the critical fact that after the allies won WW2, Nazis didn't control Germany.

Whereas the Taliban remains in control of Afghanistan. To describe that as a US win doesn't really seem accurate.

The US did print a big 'Mission Accomplished' banner though, so I agree the folks who started the war do claim it was a victory.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#144

Post by bluGill »

pfdietz wrote: post #44

Something like 70% of US steel production is now from scrap. Part of this was moderation of growth. In steady state, nearly all steel could come from scrap (limited by contaminants, I guess.) I expect aluminum to displace more steel in the future. Witness what's happening with "gigacasting" at Tesla and elsewhere.

steel has many useful properties hard to get out of aluminum. And vise versa, consult a metraligost to see what is right for you.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#145

Post by mongol »

beambot wrote: post #90
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

Technically, the US hasn't fought any wars since WWII -- as a declaration of war is a Congressional function. All of the other things people think of or refer to wars were technically "conflicts".

You are using the word technically wrong. Whether a country is at war or not is not a technical matter, it is dependent on the facts on the ground. A war is an intense armed conflict, usually between states. Just as the US did not declare war after WWII, they have not had problems calling Russia's invasion of Ukraine a war, despite Russian statements it is just a special military operation. We all know it is a war, just like that the US has been involved in multiple wars after WWII.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#146

Post by sbierwagen »

mikeyouse wrote: post #95
scotty79 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any other country considers any of those cases to be wins ... Perhaps maybe wars in Iraq or Jugoslavia. I think eventual loss in Ukraine will be last nail in the coffin of US military reputation.

The US isn’t fighting in Ukraine so that’d be a strange result. Especially since our surplus weapons with novice operators have laid waste to the invasion force of what was considered to be the 2nd or 3rd strongest army on the planet..

>surplus weapons

I'll grant that for the Bradley, but Patriot batteries are in rather short supply.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#147

Post by ChuckMcM »

pomian wrote: post #30

One of the ideas that seems to be missed from the study of history and economy, was the effect on the total destruction of the Japanese and German industrial base - during WWII. Britain and USA, were left with their archaic industrial systems. After WWII, the Japanese and the German steel industry had to be completely reborn. (At the cost of primarily USA financing.) Those two countries had no more relics of the past…

It is an interesting narrative but largely untrue. As the article points out, US Steel (and the US steel industry in general) was making enough profit, what they were not doing was re-investing those profits into upgrading their steel making. Instead, the "People in Charge" were giving themselves large bonuses and pay upgrades for being bosses of the "big steel." This was especially true through the 80's and 90's in a post "stagflation" atmosphere a lot of industry became more focused on executive pay than product production. The poster child was the auto industry "forgetting" how to make quality cars. They didn't forget of course, they just focused more on shoveling money into the C-suite and less on actually building a quality product. The massive erosion of the car market to Japanese automakers was a direct result of that shift of thinking.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#148

Post by voidfunc »

fosk wrote: post #139
KMag wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the movie "The Mouse That Roared". Having seen the results of Germany and Japan being bombed and rebuilt by the US, a small fictional country comes up with the brilliant development plan of intentionally starting and losing a war with the US. Spoiler alert: they end up having to deal with the tragedy of accidentally winning the war. As I recall, part of it was they just assumed their generals would lose, so the g…

Maybe someone can clarify this to me: wasn’t US help essentially given as a loan that would carry interest and repayments? Or was it given for free with the agreement that they would follow a US-inspired democratic system and be allies (and in exchange of trade agreements)? Were military bases in those countries given as a repayment, perhaps in addition to repaying the loans? But even then, isn’t the US paying rent f…

The repayment is that we took over the defense of Europe and basically eliminated the pre-war European powers as global competitors. This gives us tremendous leverage to do whatever the fuck we want either unilaterally or by coercing our European client-states to act on our behalf.

Europe deciding to light itself on fire twice in the last century is the best thing that ever happened to America.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#149

Post by cafard »

erehweb wrote: post #2

Reminiscent of the business school joke - What does US Steel make? The answer is not "steel", but "money", that being the point of any company.

Many years ago, I read some that some executive of General Motors had said that GM was not in business to make cars but to make money. At the time, that seemed acute. Since then, I have wondered whether it was where GM lost its way.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#150

Post by herval »

hef19898 wrote: post #132
robertlagrant wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US picks extremely difficult battles to fight in a way its citizens deem acceptable, and they aren't wars of conquest. Those factors are going to make it very hard to point at a simple winner.

All the wars mentioned have ckear, internationally acknowledged winners and loosers as well as treaties. Vietnam ended in US defeat, and French defeat before that. Afghanistan ended with US / NATO defeat and the Taliban taking over the country. The Korean War isn't over yet technically, all we have there is a cease fire. Stalemate, nobody surrendered. The US won the second Gulf War, Panama and some smaller stuff I am…

Would you mind providing some “clear and internationally acknowledged” sources for the Korean War that stated it’s still ongoing or that Afghanistan was an undisputed loss?
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