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"No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

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Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#91

Post by scotty79 »

nostrademons wrote: post #83
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

This all depends on victory conditions. The U.S. "won" Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan in the same sense that they "won" WW2 - those countries were bombed back into the stone age and the existing governments fell. But WW2 was fought as the U.S. was an ascendant (but not dominant) power among a number of peer rivals, and the U.S. was not the aggressor. It felt like a victory, because we emerged as the dominant p…

I don't think any other country considers any of those cases to be wins ... Perhaps maybe wars in Iraq or Jugoslavia.

I think eventual loss in Ukraine will be last nail in the coffin of US military reputation.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#92

Post by bejk22 »

beambot wrote: post #90
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

Technically, the US hasn't fought any wars since WWII -- as a declaration of war is a Congressional function. All of the other things people think of or refer to wars were technically "conflicts".

I'm unsure the US can unilaterally decide if it's in a war or not. Do the opposite side consider it a war? Do the international community consider it a war? Semantic games internal to a single side do not matter much.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#93

Post by petermcneeley »

This analysis does not seem properly include wage/labor costs.

"By 1958 some steelmakers in Germany and Japan were able to compete on price with US producers, and by the mid-1970s input costs for Japanese steel (ore, labor, coking coal, etc.) were nearly half those of US costs."

So the input costs were half almost certainly all due to labor either directly or indirectly.

Viewed in this light the fall of US Steel is no different than any other manufacturing process in the USA.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#94

Post by scotty79 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #52
fudged71 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re telling me the Stanford torus space colony that has filled my dreams for my entire life was propaganda for US steel?

Anybody since the 70s designing those radial supports out of anything that isn't a polyester isn't paying attention.

Starships in After Earth have very cool designs with a lot of threads and fabrics and membranes instead of rigid steel.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#95

Post by mikeyouse »

scotty79 wrote: post #91
nostrademons wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all depends on victory conditions. The U.S. "won" Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan in the same sense that they "won" WW2 - those countries were bombed back into the stone age and the existing governments fell. But WW2 was fought as the U.S. was an ascendant (but not dominant) power among a number of peer rivals, and the U.S. was not the aggressor. It felt like a victory, because we emerged as the dominant p…

I don't think any other country considers any of those cases to be wins ... Perhaps maybe wars in Iraq or Jugoslavia. I think eventual loss in Ukraine will be last nail in the coffin of US military reputation.

The US isn’t fighting in Ukraine so that’d be a strange result. Especially since our surplus weapons with novice operators have laid waste to the invasion force of what was considered to be the 2nd or 3rd strongest army on the planet..

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#96

Post by morkalork »

ben_w wrote: post #58
l33t7332273 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small country winning the war against post WW2 USA seems like it would be a bit of a plot hole.

It's a comedy, one I feel I ought to watch at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse_That_Roared_(film)

Peter Sellers playing 3 different roles. Poor guy really did get type cast in the weirdest way.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#97

Post by tshaddox »

beambot wrote: post #90
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

Technically, the US hasn't fought any wars since WWII -- as a declaration of war is a Congressional function. All of the other things people think of or refer to wars were technically "conflicts".

That’s not even correct on a technicality, because you switch mid-sentence from discussing “war” to discussing “declaration of war.” A declaration of war is plainly different from a war. Declarations of war are frequently made well after a war has begun or well before any fighting takes place. And as you state, many wars are fought without any declaration of war.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#98

Post by stjohnswarts »

ren_engineer wrote: post #81
araes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has started to have the appearance of griefing their own enlisted. I'm not sure if America actually cares about those types of war and military considerations any longer. Have you looked at ship construction times lately? On the materials side. Totally agree. However the issue there, is that's not what corporations tend to optimize. The story itself really spells it out pretty clearly (it may be biased, never…

>I'm not sure if America actually cares about those types of war and military considerations any longer. Have you looked at ship construction times lately? it's kind of funny because the US won WWII by the ability to churn out huge volumes of decent quality goods but now our military seems to be adopting the German idea that small numbers of expensive wunderwaffen will turn the tide

And Chinese military build out seems to be "perfect is the enemy of good enough" and "quantity has a quality all its own", so soon we're likely to be the ones playing catch up despite our huge military budget and outlays.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#99

Post by SoftTalker »

mikeyouse wrote: post #95
scotty79 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any other country considers any of those cases to be wins ... Perhaps maybe wars in Iraq or Jugoslavia. I think eventual loss in Ukraine will be last nail in the coffin of US military reputation.

The US isn’t fighting in Ukraine so that’d be a strange result. Especially since our surplus weapons with novice operators have laid waste to the invasion force of what was considered to be the 2nd or 3rd strongest army on the planet..

The fight isn't over yet and there is trouble in the Red Sea and it could all turn into WW-III at some point.

Re: "No inventions; no innovations" A History of US Steel

#100

Post by dmurray »

nostrademons wrote: post #83
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which war did the US win post WW2? Afaict they all ended in stalemates and eventual retreat (Korea,Iraq,Vietnam,Afghanistan,..)

This all depends on victory conditions. The U.S. "won" Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan in the same sense that they "won" WW2 - those countries were bombed back into the stone age and the existing governments fell. But WW2 was fought as the U.S. was an ascendant (but not dominant) power among a number of peer rivals, and the U.S. was not the aggressor. It felt like a victory, because we emerged as the dominant p…

> The U.S. "won" Korea, Iraq, Vietnam, and Afghanistan in the same sense that they "won" WW2 - those countries were bombed back into the stone age and the existing governments fell.

This might be taught in US schools, but outside the US we have a rather different take on how the Vietnam war ended - the US-backed government fell and the North Vietnamese government took over the rest of the country. And we learned that the Korean war ended in some kind of stalemate, where the government structures on both sides exist largely intact today.

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