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New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

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Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#421

Post by hasty_pudding »

FredPret wrote: post #400
hasty_pudding wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in tech takes that long to learn if you have someone with a decent background in the subject...

False - many critical edge cases only come up once every couple of years. In my area (not cybersecurity) I’m still seeing very serious and brand-new-to-me problems come up even after many years.

So even with your experience these are still occuring periodically. lol

The solution for this is good testing and QA not fear mongering Americans into hiring immigrants.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#422

Post by hasty_pudding »

alephnerd wrote: post #370
hasty_pudding wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you theres tons of engineers with backgrounds in O.S./Networking that could learn those things very quickly. I bet most people working in it learned on the job. The certainly dont teach every single specific detail of the entire tech industry in universities. This is just gaslighting.

> could learn those things very quickly Maybe. We didn't have the time to risk on hiring a dud in an industry as competitive as Cybersecurity. When competing with Israeli and Indian companies who are able to tap the Israeli, Eastern European, and Indian talent scene where such skills are much more common, we don't have the time to risk timelines falling behind.

Oh such fear mongering.

With an decent background shouldnt take someone too long to get up to speed and that time isnt going to break the company.

Its what they do in other countries. lol

You clearly have with an agenda.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#423

Post by hasty_pudding »

FredPret wrote: post #402
hasty_pudding wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another dishonest talking point. With most tech jobs if a person has a computer science background they have the skills. The company is just lying to justify outsourcing.

Getting a degree simply indicates to the market that you have the ability to learn and the mental building blocks to start learning the ropes. Until you do it, you don’t know how to do it. In other words, juniors fumble around and make lots of mistakes - that’s how they get good.

> simply indicates to the market that you have the ability to learn

I took networking, os, data structures, etc. in my degree.

It taught me a lot more than "how to learn".

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#424

Post by jdjdjdkdksmdnd »

Georgelemental wrote: post #412
jdjdjdkdksmdnd wrote: post #399

[flagged]

To enter a country as a non-citizen is a privilege, that a country has the right to deny for any reason or none. Just as you can deny others entry into your own home or private property, without needing to give any justification. If the border agents are not applying their own stated rules consistently or transparently then that is wrong, but you are not entitled to anything just because you put in "time and effort".

[dead]

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#425

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #303
rayiner wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a good deal for them. Plus, they don’t have to leave their families and social networks behind.

It's a great deal for them. It's not the best deal for us, though, since they're not part of our tax base, nor are they growing families and social networks here for us to benefit from. It's a great outcome morally (Latam, African, and Asian countries deserve greater participation in global industries), but the one thing it doesn't do is optimize for the interests of America.

I think the long term interests of ordinary Americans are better served by having a stable population and culture without significant immigration. I have a theory that America is so relatively libertarian and ungovernable because of the immigration of all these rootless people who are willing to leave everything behind for economic reasons, who feel relatively weaker affinity to other Americans. I think we’re seeing this play out in real time with Latinos shifting right just because of a little inflation.

If that means our tech and financial sectors look more like Europe, that would probably be a good thing too. The tax base thing is a trap. Having seen the influx of tech workers and rich immigrants move into Virginia, I don’t think it was a win for the median person who was already there.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#426

Post by FredPret »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #421
FredPret wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False - many critical edge cases only come up once every couple of years. In my area (not cybersecurity) I’m still seeing very serious and brand-new-to-me problems come up even after many years.

So even with your experience these are still occuring periodically. lol The solution for this is good testing and QA not fear mongering Americans into hiring immigrants.

It’ll be very good for you to stay in learning mode after your degree.

On the other hand, if your attitude is that you now know your stuff and you’re done learning, that isn’t going to produce the best outcomes for you.

> Testing and QA

Business processes can’t take the place of experienced judgement.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#427

Post by alephnerd »

selimthegrim wrote: post #403
alephnerd wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the elite in formerly pro-American countries like Thailand, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Brazil start turning to competitors like China or Russia, or deciding to go it on their own. Countries like India or Vietnam only began starting to warm to the US because of the diaspora. If the diaspora gets treated like shit, anti-Americanism begins to breed. A similar thing happened in China in the 2010s.

I see you omitted Pak from this list. Was it an exclusive list?

Pakistan leaned pro-China since the 1960s after Ayub Khan normalized relations with China over Aksai Chin and Pakistan helped negotiate the Sino-US Pact, but fully pivoted after Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto became PM, as he had a good working relationship with Mao [4]

The Pakistani nuclear program was jumpstarted by PLA technology transfers in the 1970s [0][5], Pakistani Tank Technology like Al-Khalid are results of PLA tech transfers in the early 1990s [1], Pakistan began adopting Chinese fighter jet IP in the early 1990s [2], and the entire indigenous missles program in Pakistan began thanks to Chinese IP transfers in the 80s [3]

The US-Pakistan relationship was always transactional and surface level. Chinese SOEs would at least invest in Military affiliated companies like Heavy Industries Taxila, Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Khan Research Laboratories, Global Industrial Defence Solutions, and National Defence Complex

The countries in the list abovr had a relationship with the US that was similar to that between China-Pakistan, but began pivoting away from the US in the 2010s.

[0] - https://www.jstor.org/stable/41394229

[1] - https://www.dawn.com/news/1217909

[2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20121021154725/http://www.flight...

[3] - https://web.archive.org/web/20081007232310/http://www.wiscon...

[4] - https://www.nytimes.com/1972/02/02/archives/bhutto-confers-w...

[5] - https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB114/

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#428

Post by selimthegrim »

alephnerd wrote: post #427
selimthegrim wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you omitted Pak from this list. Was it an exclusive list?

Pakistan leaned pro-China since the 1960s after Ayub Khan normalized relations with China over Aksai Chin and Pakistan helped negotiate the Sino-US Pact, but fully pivoted after Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto became PM, as he had a good working relationship with Mao [4] The Pakistani nuclear program was jumpstarted by PLA technology transfers in the 1970s [0][5], Pakistani Tank Technology like Al-Khalid are results of PLA tech…

Sad that it came this far from Edward Durrell Stone designing PINSTECH

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#429

Post by alephnerd »

selimthegrim wrote: post #428
alephnerd wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pakistan leaned pro-China since the 1960s after Ayub Khan normalized relations with China over Aksai Chin and Pakistan helped negotiate the Sino-US Pact, but fully pivoted after Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto became PM, as he had a good working relationship with Mao [4] The Pakistani nuclear program was jumpstarted by PLA technology transfers in the 1970s [0][5], Pakistani Tank Technology like Al-Khalid are results of PLA tech…

Sad that it came this far from Edward Durrell Stone designing PINSTECH

Stone designing PINSTECH was because of Abdus Salam.

Though, even PINSTECH pivoted to China by the 70s [0].

The India-Pakistan rivalry forced Pakistan to try and reach parity with India via Chinese technology transfers.

And yea. American hubris will lose us the next war.

[0] - https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA318316.pdf

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#430

Post by hasty_pudding »

FredPret wrote: post #426
hasty_pudding wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So even with your experience these are still occuring periodically. lol The solution for this is good testing and QA not fear mongering Americans into hiring immigrants.

It’ll be very good for you to stay in learning mode after your degree. On the other hand, if your attitude is that you now know your stuff and you’re done learning, that isn’t going to produce the best outcomes for you. > Testing and QA Business processes can’t take the place of experienced judgement.

> Business processes can’t take the place of experienced judgement.

This is utterly incorrect..

Testing and QA are techical processes run by engineers.

Where did you get your degree ? Your knowledge of tech seems extraordinarily limited. Theres solutions to your problems you're not even aware of.

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