Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

jalopnik.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 114 posts

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#91

Post by Scoundreller »

Scoundreller wrote: post #16
orangecat wrote: post #6

You could just make them smaller. There's no rule saying you can't. There kind of is. Fuel efficiency requirements are stricter for smaller vehicles, creating a perverse incentive to increase size. Here's a 2011 paper that predicted exactly what would happen: https://news.umich.edu/cafe-standards-create-profit-incentiv...

And tax advantages for “business use” vehicles when they weigh over 6000 pounds: https://www.taxfyle.com/blog/list-of-vehicles-over-6000-lbs

I wonder where the weights they added to the Lincoln Aviator are to get it to 6001 pounds. Can they be removed?

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#92

Post by burnte »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #66
burnte wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Impala was never compact. Compact cars are smaller, like hatchbacks and such, the Civic, the Escort, etc.

It's roughly the same size as a Gremlin at this point. And you misread what I wrote.

Cars the size of a Chevy Impala were never categorized as compact. The Gremlin is almost 3 feet shorter than an Impala.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#93

Post by dukeofdoom »

cyberax wrote: post #54
dukeofdoom wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write from experience. My parent's Ford focus wheel fell off after hitting a pot hole. Not even a big one. Just less sturdy components that rusted.

I write from experience: large cars just fall apart. My rental SUV with 150 miles had a wheel falling off. Dude, you do understand that making extrapolations onto all cars from a single datapoint is idiocy?

Maybe it would be, but only in your head. It's not just single data point that I base my opinion on.

The average SUV can cost significantly more than a typical car. The manufacturer tends to build SUVS with larger wheels, and sturdier components. Very often SUVs will be built on a Truck body for example. The larger wheels, sturdier frame are much better going over potholes, and clearing snow.

Just curious, do you live anywhere with snow/winter weather?

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#94

Post by dukeofdoom »

toast0 wrote: post #49
dukeofdoom wrote: post #31

Smaller cars use less sturdy components and tires A pothole or even snow can take them out.

You can make a small car manage potholes well and you can put big wheels and tiny sidewalls on a larger car. It's a matter of design and aesthetics. Sometimes aesthetics win and sometimes mechanical design wins.

Fair point. I had a friend with a rear wheel drive BMW sports car. Great looking car, but he kept it in the garage in winter, after he spun out a few times on icy roads. Also the car had a hard time clearing even a modest snow fall. Can cars be made to outperform SUVs in winter driving? Probably.

But I wrote in reference to the market average car vs the average suv. There's probably at least $10k price difference there. The observation I have made owning both cars and SUVs, is that the SUV is more rugged and durable, and drives better in Winter. The larger price tag, also means that the manufacturer doesn't have to skimp on every component as much, to come in under $25k. A real challenge at the bottom of the market, where the largest share of car consumers tended to be.

If I was living in Hawaii, I honestly would not give a shit what kind of car I drive. I would just be happy to have a car in Hawaii.

What this discussion misses is the context of how a car gets used. And that largely depends on where the car is driven.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#95

Post by WirelessGigabit »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #94
toast0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a small car manage potholes well and you can put big wheels and tiny sidewalls on a larger car. It's a matter of design and aesthetics. Sometimes aesthetics win and sometimes mechanical design wins.

Fair point. I had a friend with a rear wheel drive BMW sports car. Great looking car, but he kept it in the garage in winter, after he spun out a few times on icy roads. Also the car had a hard time clearing even a modest snow fall. Can cars be made to outperform SUVs in winter driving? Probably. But I wrote in reference to the market average car vs the average suv. There's probably at least $10k price difference the…

Your friend should've put on winter tires. I've driven >100,000 miles in the snow with a RWD BMW with winter tires. Never had issues.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#96

Post by kcplate »

cyb_ wrote: post #89

I was curious how they defined 'unsafe' in this context. Following the links in the article, I found this quote: > These massive trucks are actually safer for their occupants, but far more deadly to the people outside

I’ll point out and it will probably get downvoted again because it is an inconvenient truth, but making vehicles safer for the occupants at the cost of slightly to somewhat more dangerous for non-occupants can still result in a net improvement of overall safety because pedestrians and vehicle accidents happen far less frequently than vehicle to vehicle accidents.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#97

Post by bryanlarsen »

kcplate wrote: post #96
cyb_ wrote: post #89

I was curious how they defined 'unsafe' in this context. Following the links in the article, I found this quote: > These massive trucks are actually safer for their occupants, but far more deadly to the people outside

I’ll point out and it will probably get downvoted again because it is an inconvenient truth, but making vehicles safer for the occupants at the cost of slightly to somewhat more dangerous for non-occupants can still result in a net improvement of overall safety because pedestrians and vehicle accidents happen far less frequently than vehicle to vehicle accidents.

No it doesn't. The larger vehicle in a collision is safer, but the smaller vehicle is less safe. If you buy an Expedition, you're more likely to kill a pedestrian, plus you're more likely to kill the occupants of any other vehicles you collide with. You're more likely to die in a rollover, and dont significantly affect your odds when colliding with a fixed object.

Your personal risk goes down because as you say vehicle to vehicle is the most common and you win that zero sum game, but overall the score is very negative.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#98

Post by qbrass »

Scoundreller wrote: post #91
Scoundreller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And tax advantages for “business use” vehicles when they weigh over 6000 pounds: https://www.taxfyle.com/blog/list-of-vehicles-over-6000-lbs

I wonder where the weights they added to the Lincoln Aviator are to get it to 6001 pounds. Can they be removed?

They added half a ton of hybrid system.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#99

Post by za3faran »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #94
toast0 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make a small car manage potholes well and you can put big wheels and tiny sidewalls on a larger car. It's a matter of design and aesthetics. Sometimes aesthetics win and sometimes mechanical design wins.

Fair point. I had a friend with a rear wheel drive BMW sports car. Great looking car, but he kept it in the garage in winter, after he spun out a few times on icy roads. Also the car had a hard time clearing even a modest snow fall. Can cars be made to outperform SUVs in winter driving? Probably. But I wrote in reference to the market average car vs the average suv. There's probably at least $10k price difference the…

Which SUVs did you own out of curiosity?

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#100

Post by kcplate »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #97
kcplate wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll point out and it will probably get downvoted again because it is an inconvenient truth, but making vehicles safer for the occupants at the cost of slightly to somewhat more dangerous for non-occupants can still result in a net improvement of overall safety because pedestrians and vehicle accidents happen far less frequently than vehicle to vehicle accidents.

No it doesn't. The larger vehicle in a collision is safer, but the smaller vehicle is less safe. If you buy an Expedition, you're more likely to kill a pedestrian, plus you're more likely to kill the occupants of any other vehicles you collide with. You're more likely to die in a rollover, and dont significantly affect your odds when colliding with a fixed object. Your personal risk goes down because as you say vehic…

So you do or don’t agree with my statement of “making vehicles safer for the occupants at the cost of slightly to somewhat more dangerous for non-occupants can still result in a net improvement of overall safety”?
Post reply on HN