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American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

jalopnik.com

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Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#51

Post by tharne »

Retric wrote: post #44
tharne wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that we've come to an era where supposedly educated people are in the habit of telling others that the use of their senses and mind to understand the world are invalid because someone didn't put the conclusions on a website.

I realize you don’t think so but this really is a good thing. Memory is faulty, and the parent poster was simply incorrect.

How is that a good thing? The internet is a dumpster fire of half truths, infotainment, and objective falsehoods. I'll take human memory with all its warts over most of what's on the web any day.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#52

Post by nradov »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #41

Lots of people want big cars, and they vote with their checkbook. I have a big car. I have children. They have stuff, and friends and we go on long drives sometimes. It's nice to have a big car.

There's really no substitute for having a big car. Sure it's possible to live with a small car (I've done it), but having more interior space and cargo capacity makes everything so much easier. Especially if you have children who participate in team sports.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#53

Post by dukeofdoom »

cyberax wrote: post #38
dukeofdoom wrote: post #31

Smaller cars use less sturdy components and tires A pothole or even snow can take them out.

What a bunch of bull. It's a complete opposite, a heavier vehicle chews through tires faster.

I write from experience. My parent's Ford focus wheel fell off after hitting a pot hole. Not even a big one. Just less sturdy components that rusted.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#54

Post by cyberax »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #53
cyberax wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of bull. It's a complete opposite, a heavier vehicle chews through tires faster.

I write from experience. My parent's Ford focus wheel fell off after hitting a pot hole. Not even a big one. Just less sturdy components that rusted.

I write from experience: large cars just fall apart. My rental SUV with 150 miles had a wheel falling off.

Dude, you do understand that making extrapolations onto all cars from a single datapoint is idiocy?

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#55

Post by chrisco255 »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #11
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #7

Pretty slanted. Could write a complementary article: large cars are safer for the passengers. Why don't we keep pedestrians separate from traffic more effectively?

Large cars aren't inherently safer for passengers. They are only safer in collisions with other cars that are smaller, at the expense of the safety of the people in the smaller cars. Having an arms race where people buy bigger and bigger cars to be safer in collisions with other cars is really not ideal, because it doesn't improve overall automobile safety on a national level even just for drivers, and it hurts safet…

Pedestrians aren't getting killed more often because cars are bigger. They're not being seen due to low visibility from A pillar designs. SUVs used to be quite boxy and large in the 90s and early 00s (think 90s Ford Explorer, Chevy Suburban, etc), but began to take on a more streamlined, car-like look in the late 00s / early 10s. As a result of this design shift to crossovers, the A column gets slanted and blocks a wide field of view that especially affects drivers when making left turns. This coupled with a higher ride height means pedestrians aren't getting seen, especially at night.

If you look at the stats, virtually the entire increase in pedestrian deaths over the last 10 years has occurred at night.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#56

Post by gruez »

tharne wrote: post #51
Retric wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize you don’t think so but this really is a good thing. Memory is faulty, and the parent poster was simply incorrect.

How is that a good thing? The internet is a dumpster fire of half truths, infotainment, and objective falsehoods. I'll take human memory with all its warts over most of what's on the web any day.

The irony here is that the comment itself that's up for discussion (ie. whether a car is "full size") is also on the internet, and therefore I can flip your argument of "internet is a dumpster fire of half truths, infotainment, and objective falsehoods. I'll take human memory with all its warts over most of what's on the web any day" right back at you. What makes one random commenter's assertion that it's a full sized car more correct than another comment that claims the opposite?

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#57

Post by cozzyd »

chrisco255 wrote: post #55
resoluteteeth wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large cars aren't inherently safer for passengers. They are only safer in collisions with other cars that are smaller, at the expense of the safety of the people in the smaller cars. Having an arms race where people buy bigger and bigger cars to be safer in collisions with other cars is really not ideal, because it doesn't improve overall automobile safety on a national level even just for drivers, and it hurts safet…

Pedestrians aren't getting killed more often because cars are bigger. They're not being seen due to low visibility from A pillar designs. SUVs used to be quite boxy and large in the 90s and early 00s (think 90s Ford Explorer, Chevy Suburban, etc), but began to take on a more streamlined, car-like look in the late 00s / early 10s. As a result of this design shift to crossovers, the A column gets slanted and blocks a w…

I think cars getting taller also doesn't help (pop over the hood vs. trampled underneath), but I'm not sure...

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#58

Post by ericmay »

orangecat wrote: post #6

You could just make them smaller. There's no rule saying you can't. There kind of is. Fuel efficiency requirements are stricter for smaller vehicles, creating a perverse incentive to increase size. Here's a 2011 paper that predicted exactly what would happen: https://news.umich.edu/cafe-standards-create-profit-incentiv...

Thanks for sharing this here, it really does appear to be the primary culprit. If anything the larger the vehicle the more fuel efficient it should be, not the opposite.

But that is just one part of the puzzle.

The other is of course just normal marketing, advertising, etc. convincing people that they do lots of things outdoors that they don't actually do. Ford, GM, Toyota, Dodge, etc. are not the only ones guilty of this of course as Patagonia, REI, Apple (Ultra watch), and other companies that tout the Great American Outdoors have suckered us (me included) into these outdoor lifestyle brands as well. They all make fine products, of course, but people who tend to want trucks want them because of what they think they enable.

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#59

Post by thechao »

tharne wrote: post #26
dv_dt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large cars are less agile, making it more difficult to avoid accidents. SUVs in particular are also much more likely to rollover than passenger cars. This makes larger vehicles less safe for their passengers.

It really depends on the vehicle. Minivans are quite large and are some of the safest vehicles on the road.

Where's my 550 mile ranged EV minivan!?

Re: American cars are huge and unsafe, but automakers don't want the simple solution

#60

Post by cozzyd »

tharne wrote: post #26
dv_dt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large cars are less agile, making it more difficult to avoid accidents. SUVs in particular are also much more likely to rollover than passenger cars. This makes larger vehicles less safe for their passengers.

It really depends on the vehicle. Minivans are quite large and are some of the safest vehicles on the road.

I don't really pay attention to cars that much, but while I see utility vans all the time, I rarely see a minivan nowadays.

But while minivans won't roll over, they also will almost certainly have longer stopping distances than a sedan.

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