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New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

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Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#231

Post by jjkeddo199 »

geodel wrote: post #204
danking00 wrote: post #63

Watching friends work through the decades long journey of citizenship, going to prestigious undergrad institutions, getting PhDs, publishing in journals, teaching part-time while working full time in industry, all just to get the right to stay in the country they’ve lived since they were 18 is fucking depressing. I doubt I’d qualify for EB-1 [1]. I’d have qualified for EB-2 at 28 when I attained five years of work ex…

> It just all seems cosmically unfair. Huh, it is unfair in the same sense that football, basketball or movie stars are living in mega mansions or penthouses and flying in private jets while millions in US struggle for basic needs in US. Most H1B coming from India are among top 1-2% of India's vast population and thats pretty fucking huge luck. Going through normal wait of immigration process, which no one forced the…

If you want to complain about pro athletes making too much compare to STEM, consider that the average aspiring pro ends up making less than minimum wage over the duration of their career.

Only a tiny handful of about 250k high school football-playing seniors are able to find any at all job in their sport (if they even make it to college). Meanwhile, the roughly 100k yearly US CS grads have an unemployment rate of maybe 10%.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#233

Post by Dopameaner »

geodel wrote: post #219
aiisahik wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. It's just a WIN WIN for the company and the individual. But this is what the US is encouraging with its immigration policy so you reap what you sow.

Another thing could be that you come collecting US degrees is a WIN for US. Maybe degrees in Australia or your birth country weren't good enough for you (or you weren't good enough for them). Either way that US was able to have you for education and jobs for many years after that is win in my book.

I dont completely agree with you. Honestly, appears like an excuse to never change the USCIS, I have come peace with it, that it never will.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#234

Post by VirusNewbie »

bequanna wrote: post #58
addicted wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the last 30 odd years of increasing immigration has exerted tremendous downward pressure on US tech salaries. And countries in Europe that have not seen as much Tech immigration have seen huge boosts in Tech salaries. Comparable Europeans earn almost 1/3 - 1/2 what their American counterparts do today!

I’d be curious to hear opinions on why this large compensation discrepancy exists. AFAIK, my company has never considered outsourcing to remote Euro workers. Is there a perceived difference in engineer quality? Time difference?

>Is there a perceived difference in engineer quality?

Intuitively, yes. If you're both brilliant, care about money, and want to stay and live in the EU, you aren't going to be a software engineer.

In the US, it's a solid path to a lucrative career.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#235

Post by gourabmi »

edgyquant wrote: post #82
thenaturalist wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is not a zero sum game. The US created literally all relevant consumer technology in the last 30 or so years and demand for tech talent has exploded ever since. Having a competitve sector/ economy which regularly pushes the edge of innovation and hence expands demand (both on sell and supply side) is actually what keeps salaries up. This logic is as deeply flawed as often as it comes up.

Yes it is. Every foreign employee getting that tech job is a US citizen from the Midwest not getting it. Fuck this dishonest talking point, I know people coding since high school working at Toyota plants while people from overseas with entry level skill sets have employers move them to the west coast and land jobs (for whatever reason.) It’s favoritism, it’s cronyism, it’s a nation putting its own struggling people l…

I think it is more about leaving their comfort zones. One might have to move out of their towns / states to access resources that the US has to offer. Dozens of US states offers so much support to their students studying STEM. You can defer education loan payments. There is so much federal aid. There are dirt cheap colleges if you want to get vocational education and start working quickly. But all of these are not available in one city. They are spread across the nation.

Globalization is a two way street. If you want the best of what the world has to offer, the best of what the world has to offer will arrive at your doorstep. That includes human resources.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#236

Post by ta988 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191
jmyeet wrote: post #8

There's no changes that affect the real bottleneck: the annual quota on green cards and the per-country limits of 7% or children aging out. Those all require Congressional action and that's just not going to happen in the current political environment [1]. Here's my take: you get a work visa for 3-5 years that's tied to your employer and allows you to freely leave and re-enter the US. Believe it or not, we still have…

> you get a work visa for 3-5 years that's tied to your employer Time spent getting a degree at an accredited American university should count as the same.

Disagree as it has no warranty you are good enough to keep a job, only that you could pay fees every year.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#237

Post by peyton »

gourabmi wrote: post #225
rayiner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don’t want an unlimited number of foreigners moving into the country? Like it or not that’s the reason Congress won’t touch the issue, right?

This "unlimited number" argument is a common dog whistle. If the Dept of Labor is certifying each one of the qualified immigrants and vetting the credentials, how is this unlimited?

Dog whistle for what? Calling for deportation? The comment is literally just “we can’t take every immigrant.” What other position is there?

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#238

Post by raverbashing »

pc86 wrote: post #48
snakeyjake wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer cannot hire H1Bs. They are prohibited by law. All employees must be US citizens. They pay extremely competitive rates. They are the reason for and a source of complaints regarding gentrification in my area. edit: as an example the starting rate for high school work-study and college interns is the hourly equivalent of $78k/yr plus the same benefits as full-time employees from the second they show up. The…

I worked for a sexy startup (non AI and didn't steal user data, but did have ads) that got bought by one of these big hard-STEM companies. The scientists there who had 15 YOE and a PhD made less than programmers on our side with no college degree and 2-3 years of experience programming. Hard-STEM seems to have lots of jobs where you can grind your ass off for the better part of a decade or two and hope to make $100-1…

True

The "hard-stem" places rely on a bit of gaslighting and the "holier than thou" self-image of the "hard-stem" people to pay them less and to overwork them

As much as the IT world has issues, it is night and day compared to the hard-stem world where a lot of times they won't even look at you if you don't have a MSc or PhD. Learn on the job, what is that?

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#239

Post by alephnerd »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #217
alephnerd wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread First time in an immigration discussion on HN? They always bring the "America for Americans (who look like me)" types out of the woodwork.

FWIW I'm a foreign-born US citizen and I agree with them. I think immigration is important for highly in-demand fields that can't be fulfilled by US citizens or existing permanent residents within the next 5 years. Nurses and doctors for example. Tech is not one of those fields, so I would 100% support anti-immigration policies (including outsourcing restrictions) in that sector until there is a true need for it.

Nurses and Doctors make the same complaints Engineers do.

And depending on the subfield, it simply cannot be filled in 2-3 years.

There is just an institutional failure in supporting STEM at the undergraduate level in the US.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#240

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ta988 wrote: post #236
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you get a work visa for 3-5 years that's tied to your employer Time spent getting a degree at an accredited American university should count as the same.

Disagree as it has no warranty you are good enough to keep a job, only that you could pay fees every year.

Sure. Nobody said you get citizenship. Just a work visa not tied to an employer.
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