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New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

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Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#221

Post by jimbob45 »

alephnerd wrote: post #202
coredog64 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now they'll make contributions to India, Eastern Europe Good! There’s a billion people in India and plenty of opportunities for growth. The net benefit for all of humanity is larger if they stay there. Put another way, is it really all that great that the US drains the top talent out of India and Eastern Europe?

It does when those people who leave have a chip on their shoulder due to bad experiences with the US. For example, the founder of Zoho (Sridhar Vembu - I actually lived in the same apartment complex in the Bay Area that he started Zoho at) has become a NatSec cabinet advisor to Narendra Modi's administration, and has a chip on his shoulder about his experience dealing with US immigration. It was a big reason he retur…

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati...

China and India combined take in less than a tenth of the immigrants the US takes in yearly. There's really no reason anyone should take their opinions on immigration seriously.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#222

Post by lotsofpulp »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #14
satya71 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not any more than other patent applicants. Currently all the layers in patent application process is incentivized to ignore quality. 1. Large companies pay a bonus for every patent applied and bigger one for approval. 2. Patent lawyers are paid for filed patents. 3. Patent office makes money on each patent. They view the review process as a cost center and optimize it for fast approval.

Outsourcing real approval to the courts, what could possibly go wrong?

Would be fine if courts were sufficiently funded such that adjudication happened within weeks.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#223

Post by alephnerd »

jimbob45 wrote: post #221
alephnerd wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does when those people who leave have a chip on their shoulder due to bad experiences with the US. For example, the founder of Zoho (Sridhar Vembu - I actually lived in the same apartment complex in the Bay Area that he started Zoho at) has become a NatSec cabinet advisor to Narendra Modi's administration, and has a chip on his shoulder about his experience dealing with US immigration. It was a big reason he retur…

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati... China and India combined take in less than a tenth of the immigrants the US takes in yearly. There's really no reason anyone should take their opinions on immigration seriously.

I think you missed the entire point of my post above.

The US's biggest strength is it's soft power at the elite level.

Because of bad experiences like immigration, the US has been losing influence as foreign decision makers soured on the US due to crap treatment.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#224

Post by gourabmi »

ndriscoll wrote: post #43
abduhl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Patents are easy to get How many do you have? Patents are more difficult to obtain than HN gives credit and they cost a non-inconsequential amount of money too.

> How many do you have? That seems like an odd retort to me. Like I have zero because I find the whole idea ethically dubious. When I was at IBM, they had occasional patent brainstorming meetings. I remember saying to one of the more senior engineers that everything I worked on was straightforward/obvious, and he told me I'd be surprised, which didn't do much to sway my thoughts on the ethics there. Everyone who had…

Sorry. This does not seem like an odd retort to me. Just because you are opposed to the general idea does not make it easy :)

From your comments, it seems like you have little exposure to the actual time and effort spent in the patent process. And that is okay!

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#225

Post by gourabmi »

rayiner wrote: post #101
jmyeet wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we need a quota for qualified people getting work visas (or green cards) at all? We don't.

Because we don’t want an unlimited number of foreigners moving into the country? Like it or not that’s the reason Congress won’t touch the issue, right?

This "unlimited number" argument is a common dog whistle. If the Dept of Labor is certifying each one of the qualified immigrants and vetting the credentials, how is this unlimited?

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#226

Post by alephnerd »

remarkEon wrote: post #218
alephnerd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We listed all these jobs remotely. There just aren't that many engineers who know OS Internals, eBPF, or XDP in Indiana compared to Tel Aviv or Bangalore.

That is a policy problem. Opening up more immigration makes that problem worse, not better. It should be a question that everyone asks: why do US Universities not create an adequate supply of workers to meet the demand of the market? No one seems to care and the solution is always “just do more immigration”. Makes no sense.

I worked on the policy side before I entered tech.

You can't "command economy" human capital. It just doesn't work.

Upskilling has a 5-10 year long lag time.

Immigration is the only reason America hasn't stumbled like Europe, Japan, or Korea demographically.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#227

Post by wfh »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #161
genmud wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see a revamp of visa system that when someone is sponsored by companies they are required to do a 1:1 match for scholarships on the salary of someone who they are sponsoring. Alternatively make the minimum $100k or max $250k. As someone who had someone come over on a O-1 visa, I 100% would have been willing to pay double for that person specifically. It also removes the common issue of people who are…

Rather than doubling the cost a company has to pay for a foreign employee, which inevitably pushes down wages for high-end talent, why not just rank applicants based on how much they’re actually paid? If an employee is recruited at $250k, they clearly have skills the market values.

If you mean the existing H-1B lottery, see sibling comment linking the Forbes article which says "However, attorneys say attempting to reorder the H-1B lottery from highest to lowest salary by regulation, as the administration has discussed, would be unlikely to survive a legal challenge."

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#228

Post by genmud »

snakeyjake wrote: post #37
lgleason wrote: post #4

Expect further downward pressure on US tech salaries.

My employer cannot hire H1Bs. They are prohibited by law. All employees must be US citizens. They pay extremely competitive rates. They are the reason for and a source of complaints regarding gentrification in my area. edit: as an example the starting rate for high school work-study and college interns is the hourly equivalent of $78k/yr plus the same benefits as full-time employees from the second they show up. The…

If it's just export controlled stuff(radar, dual use stuff), technically you can hire non US citizens, and IIRC it's actually discrimination if you only hire US citizens. But you need to get export licenses, which they might not grant based on the country of citizenship, and they require permanent residence.

But let's be honest, it's pretty standard practice to require US citizenship.

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#229

Post by ryandrake »

satya71 wrote: post #6
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

>“You don’t have any accomplishments,” the lawyer told him. “You don’t have a patent, or even a product.” That scolding spurred Sanjay to make a list of what he needed to do to achieve his goal of staying permanently. He improved the technology his AI-based firm was developing, expanded its customer base, and filed for a U.S. patent, which was awarded earlier this year. In May those efforts paid off, allowing him to…

Not any more than other patent applicants. Currently all the layers in patent application process is incentivized to ignore quality. 1. Large companies pay a bonus for every patent applied and bigger one for approval. 2. Patent lawyers are paid for filed patents. 3. Patent office makes money on each patent. They view the review process as a cost center and optimize it for fast approval.

I know this is a little controversial, but I wish our software development culture would discourage patents as taboo, something to not be proud of. Software patents are a truly terrible arms race, and they essentially aren't protecting anyone except the big boys.

"Having N patents" should be something that gets frowned on, not something you highlight on your resume. When asked about this myself (during interviews or whatever), I proudly boast that I have zero patents to my name and that I actively avoid being part of the problem by participating. I see it as an opportunity to 1. help steer our culture in whatever tiny way I can and 2. get up on a little soap box about the problem.

In the past, I've been asked to help out with patent applications for these so-called "inventions" that I developed, and I always tell my manager "If you want to patent this, I can't stop you, but do not put my name on it or associate it with me in any way."

Re: New U.S. immigration rules spur more visa approvals for STEM workers

#230

Post by sirpunch »

alephnerd wrote: post #146
jmyeet wrote: post #49

I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread, some of which you could describe as reactionary. The US is and always has been a country of immigrants. Your idea of who is and isn't an immigrant is simply a question of what time window you choose. In 1800, the US had a population of ~2 million. by 1900 it was ~50 million. You want to guess how itt got that way? Let's dispense of th…

> I'm a little surprised to see a number of anti-immigraiton comments on this thread First time in an immigration discussion on HN? They always bring the "America for Americans (who look like me)" types out of the woodwork.

There are also a bunch of recent immigrants on threads like these who have the 'close the door after me' mindset. They also support hard restrictions on immigration, as soon as they get the green card or citizenship.
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