Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't it totally normal to write articles / blog posts that effectively summarize, and often quote from, news articles?
My impression is that it’s not necessarily legal, but going after bloggers and proving damages based is just a huge waste of their time. OpenAI came by with their fat stack of funding and changed that.
NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
211–220 of 921 posts
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but this then hits against learning/understanding and compression being fundamentally the same thing . I can't think of a better way to argue in favor of "it's fine if human does it, therefore it's fine if LLM does it", than from the "lossy compression" angle.
It's not okay for a human to pirate, plagiarize, violate IP rights and laws, etc. But I disagree with the underlying assumption that you can anthropomorphize LLMs. Gradient descent and backpropagation don't take place in the brain. LLMs "learn" in the same way that Excel sheets "learn". Humans are living beings with needs and rights. A person being able to legally squat in a home doesn't mean that a drone occupying p…
Not exactly, no, but the 'neurons that fire together wire together' way of learning has a pretty similar effect.
> LLMs "learn" in the same way that Excel sheets "learn".
I've never seen an excel sheet do anything like backpropagation.
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't it totally normal to write articles / blog posts that effectively summarize, and often quote from, news articles?
My impression is that it’s not necessarily legal, but going after bloggers and proving damages based is just a huge waste of their time. OpenAI came by with their fat stack of funding and changed that.
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#214If you forget about the LLM aspect, and simply build a product out of (legally) scraped NYT articles, is that fair use? Let's say I host these, offer some indexing on it, and rewrite articles. Something like, summarise all articles on US-UK relationships over past 5 years. I charge money for it, and all I pay NYT is a monthly subscription fee. To keep things simple, let's say I never regurgitate chunks of verbatim NY…
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#215It's interesting to me the ambiguous attitude people have to reproducing news content. Whenever there is a story from NYT on HN (or any other large media outlet), the top comment is almost always a link to an archived version which reproduces the text verbatim. And this seems to be tolerated as the norm. And yet, whenever there is a submission about a book, a TV show, a movie, a video game, an album, a comic book, or…
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#216It's interesting to me the ambiguous attitude people have to reproducing news content. Whenever there is a story from NYT on HN (or any other large media outlet), the top comment is almost always a link to an archived version which reproduces the text verbatim. And this seems to be tolerated as the norm. And yet, whenever there is a submission about a book, a TV show, a movie, a video game, an album, a comic book, or…
I find “4nn4’$ 4rch1v3 dot ORG” actually way better than pirate bay for pirating knowledge. It’s amazing the amount of books that copyright laws prevent us from finding https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/03/the-m...
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
My impression is that it’s not necessarily legal, but going after bloggers and proving damages based is just a huge waste of their time. OpenAI came by with their fat stack of funding and changed that.
It is legal. Fair use. People have been doing it for ages. Almost every article you've ever read has some fair use of another article, book or news item, etc.
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#218Should be: "NY Times wants OpenÄI to delete all GPT instances". You wouldn't want the hapless rabble misreading it as an "aiii" diphthong.
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#219https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/rethinking-the-l...
Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances
#220I read about this in the Times today (and am surprised that it wasn't on HN already). My guess is that the court will likely find in the Times favor, because the legal system won't be able to understand how training works and because people are "scared" of AI. To me, reading a book, putting it in some storage system, and then recalling it to form future thoughts is fair use. It's what we all do all the time, and I th…
So, if you setup a service like ChatGPT but powered by humans responding real time to queries, and these humans would occasionally reproduce large chunks of NYT articles, they and the service itself would be liable for copyright infringement. Even if they were all reproducing these from memory.
Now, this is somewhat different from the discussion of whether training the model on the copyrighted data, even if it had effective protections from returning copies of it, constitutes copyright infringement in itself. I believe this is a somewhat novel legal question and I can think of no direct corollaries.
I certainly don't think we can just handwave and say "at some level, when a human reads a copyrighted work, they are doing the same thing", because we really don't know if that is true. Artifical neural networks certainly have no direct similarity with the neural networks in the brain as far as we can tell. And, even if they did, there is no reason to give a machine the same rights that a human has - certainly not until that machine can prove sentience.