Live data from Hacker News

Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

securelist.com

291–300 of 433 posts

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#291
As its about a 37c3 presentation here a comment from Fefe¹ in German https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9b729398

According to him the exploit chain was likely worth in the region of a 8-digit dollar value.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Leitner

I guess somebody is going to get fired.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahem, Snowden, PRISM anyone?

Ahem, you mean you have a single example, from a decade ago, one where Apple was hardly a key player (hence why Apple didn’t sign onto PRISM until half a decade after Yahoo, Microsoft, Google, et all), as conclusive evidence of “eagerness to partner with spy agencies”, despite numerous public cases where they’ve done the opposite… got it!

That makes sense, would you agree to the revised statement:

"We already know Apple cooperated with the spy agencies behind the publics back"?

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#293

Coresight is not some backdoor - it's a debug feature of all ARM CPU's. This looks like a necessary extension to coresight to work with Apples memory protection stuff. Even though no public documentation exists, I'm sure thousands of Apple engineers have access to a modded gdb or other tooling to make use of it.

One persons debug tool is another’s back door.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahem, you mean you have a single example, from a decade ago, one where Apple was hardly a key player (hence why Apple didn’t sign onto PRISM until half a decade after Yahoo, Microsoft, Google, et all), as conclusive evidence of “eagerness to partner with spy agencies”, despite numerous public cases where they’ve done the opposite… got it!

That makes sense, would you agree to the revised statement: "We already know Apple cooperated with the spy agencies behind the publics back"?

No, I won’t agree to context free blanket statements which are specifically worded to imply something which is simply not provably true, especially given evidence to the opposite. If you knew anything about PRISM at all, even the technical details publicly available with the minimalist of effort on your part, you wouldn’t be asking.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different levels of secret. I would never leak a normal company secret. But a national security secret is a different story.

I do wonder if the people earning millions of dollars a year think the same way however. Considering how compartmentalized Apple is it would not take many people to be in on this.

Yes, the famously compartmentalized Apple, whose roadmap regularly leaks out to the press years (cars, AirTags, Vision Pro) and months in advance (leaks about every iPhone), absolutely a great target for subterfuge.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My adjacent conspiracy theory is that the NSA and other state agencies do both original research and pay hackers for exploits that Apple hasn’t yet discovered.

They have the budget to do both easily. Like how the NRO used to design and launch satellites that cost more than aircraft carriers but are now working closely with private companies like Maxar to find more economical solutions. https://www.maxar.com/press-releases/nro-awards-maxar-a-10-y...

Thing is the fundamental laws of physics give us a good idea as to the capabilities of the NRO given a certain launch platform. Like how when scientists in the late 70s were figuring out the best telescope they could launch they ended up with almost the exact specs of the Keyhole spy satellites, a spare of which became Hubble.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#297
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a complete lie.

Kapersky denies it, but has never offered any proof.

All other Russian cybersecurity firms work directly with the Kremlin, hard to think that they got an exception.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#298
Years ago i argued about the danger of pdfs with another account and was told not to be a paranoid nutjob.

Told you so.

edit: The fact that this obvious statement gets upvoted above the apple backdoor on 22:40 of the talk also says alot.

edit1: https://imgur.com/a/82JV7I9

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#299
post #86

[flagged]

I'd disagree with this. Apple execs surely know if this information gets leaked they're losing 30% market cap in a single day, why would they risk something like that when administrations change every 4-8 years?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/ seems you are wrong

Compare with minute 22:40 of the talk

As well as https://imgur.com/a/82JV7I9

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#300

What are the chances this MMIO register could have been discovered by brute force probing every register address? Mere differences in timing could have indicated the address was a valid address, and then the hash could perhaps have been brute forced too since it is effectively a 20 bit hash.

It looks like the registers could have been identified fairly easily via brute force. They're physically close to documented GPU registers, and accessing them triggers a GPU panic, which is how the researchers attributed them to the GPU component. The attackers could have used that same test to identify the existence of the registers.

The part that's less easily explained is how they were able to reconstruct a custom sbox table to execute the debug code. That's where the "insider threat" insinuations are strongest, but personally I'm not convinced that it precludes any number of other plausible explanations. For example, the attackers could have extracted the sbox from: older firmwares, OTA update patches, pre-release development devices (probably purchasable on ebay at some points), iOS beta releases, or a bunch of other leaky vectors.

The researcher basically says "I couldn't find this sbox table in any other binary where I looked for it." Well, that's not necessarily surprising since it appears to be Apple specific and thus there are a limited number of binaries where it might have appeared. And as the researcher notes, this includes now unpublished binaries that might have been mistakenly released. It's totally plausible that the attackers got lucky at some point while they were systematically sniffing for this sort of leak, and that the researcher is unlikely to have the same luck any time soon.

Post reply on HN