Live data from Hacker News

Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

securelist.com

221–230 of 433 posts

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#221

That's pretty astonishing. The MMIO abuse implies either the attackers have truly phenomenal research capabilities, and/or that they hacked Apple and obtained internal hardware documentation (more likely). I was willing to believe that maybe it was just a massive NSA-scale research team up until the part with a custom hash function sbox. Apple appears to have known that the feature in question was dangerous and delib…

[dead]

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#222

Isn't the most obvious answer that Apple, like other US tech firms such as Google, simply creates these wild backdoors for the NSA/GCHQ directly? Every time one's patched, three more pop up. We already know Apple and Google cooperate with the spy agencies very eagerly.

I consider that plausible with Google due to Google's funding history [0], but Apple is afaik way less "influenced" and the way this pwn was pulled off could also have been done by compromising Apple's hardware supply chain and not Apple itself.

Particularly considering how in the past Apple has been very willing to be on the receiving end of negative headlines for not giving US agencies decrypted access to iCloud accounts of terrorist suspects, with Google I don't remember it ever having been the target of such controversy, meaning they willingly oblige with all incoming requests.

[0] https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci...

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#223

Notice that the hash value for a data write of all zero's is zero... And for a single bit, the hash value is a single value from the sbox table. That means this hash algorithm could reasonably have been reverse engineered without internal documentation.

This 'smells' like a typical way to prevent memory writes to random addresses accidentally triggering this hardware. Doesn't look like it was intended as a security feature. In fact, this is how I'd implement it if someone said to me it was important that bugs couldn't lead to random writes. This implementation also effectively prevents someone using this feature whilst giving a buffer address they don't know the con…

Like a CRC? I'm reminded of the the Broadcom compression algorithm that required tedious reverse engineering, or a look at the Wikipedia page with sample code.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already know Apple and Google cooperate with the spy agencies very eagerly. The evidence clearly indicates otherwise…

Ahem, Snowden, PRISM anyone?

Ahem, you mean you have a single example, from a decade ago, one where Apple was hardly a key player (hence why Apple didn’t sign onto PRISM until half a decade after Yahoo, Microsoft, Google, et all), as conclusive evidence of “eagerness to partner with spy agencies”, despite numerous public cases where they’ve done the opposite… got it!

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#227

Isn't the most obvious answer that Apple, like other US tech firms such as Google, simply creates these wild backdoors for the NSA/GCHQ directly? Every time one's patched, three more pop up. We already know Apple and Google cooperate with the spy agencies very eagerly.

> We already know Apple and Google cooperate with the spy agencies very eagerly. The evidence clearly indicates otherwise…

How so? Any competent intelligence service will not just depend on the goodwill of a corporation to secure access to assets and intelligence.

If they cooperate that's good and convenient, but that does not mean the intelligence service will not set in place contingencies for if the other side suddenly decides not to play ball anymore.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#228

Who had motive to target Russian government officials, knowledge of the attack vectors, history of doing so, and technical and logistical ability to perform it leads Kaspersky and myself to the only rational conclusion: that Apple cooperated with the NSA on this exploit. I assume they only use and potentially burn these valuable methods in rare and perhaps desperate instances. I expect the Russian and Chinese governm…

> leads Kaspersky [..] to the [..] rational conclusion: that Apple cooperated with the NSA on this exploit doesn't the article states precisely otherwise? that while the FSB accuses Apple of cooperation, Kaspersky does not have any reason to believe so, especially since it does not look like any known state actor.

Kaspersky can't prove anything so they opted to present the facts. They didn't state any opinion about who they believe is behind the incident.

Re: Operation Triangulation: What you get when attack iPhones of researchers

#230
Coresight is not some backdoor - it's a debug feature of all ARM CPU's. This looks like a necessary extension to coresight to work with Apples memory protection stuff.

Even though no public documentation exists, I'm sure thousands of Apple engineers have access to a modded gdb or other tooling to make use of it.

Post reply on HN