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Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

npr.org

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Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#61

Post by throwaway473825 »

kccqzy wrote: post #40
nephy wrote: post #35

I have a gas range, gas water heater, gas logs, and gas backup heat. My gas bill is around $15 a month. My home has proper ventilation to the outside and I have no intention of converting a cheap gas bill into a high electric bill.

This is why we need a carbon tax. Your gas bill needs to be much higher.

A good start would be to have the same tax on electricity and gas. It's absurd that gas is heavily subsidized in most of Europe:

https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eus-energy-taxa...

Fortunately, I live in one of the few countries which don't subsidize gas (Sweden). When I visit the continent and see a gas stove, it feels like going to a museum. Induction stoves are so much better.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#62

Post by [deleted] »

kccqzy wrote: post #40
nephy wrote: post #35

I have a gas range, gas water heater, gas logs, and gas backup heat. My gas bill is around $15 a month. My home has proper ventilation to the outside and I have no intention of converting a cheap gas bill into a high electric bill.

This is why we need a carbon tax. Your gas bill needs to be much higher.

[deleted]

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#63

Post by koheripbal »

wenebego wrote: post #53
nephy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to my electricity, which is mostly produced by a coal plant?

The carbon tax should fund renewable energy sources.

...lots of things SHOULD be true, but are not in practice.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#64

Post by nephy »

dangus wrote: post #39
nephy wrote: post #35

I have a gas range, gas water heater, gas logs, and gas backup heat. My gas bill is around $15 a month. My home has proper ventilation to the outside and I have no intention of converting a cheap gas bill into a high electric bill.

Induction ranges heat up water faster and use less energy than gas ranges: https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki... Since you mentioned that you have backup heating, I assume you don’t live in a very cold climate, in which case a heat pump for your backup heat and water heater is your most efficient lowest cost option, not a gas system. Part of your gas bill is just paying the gas company for a…

Totally agree, thank you for the balanced response. Most builders where I live install gas by default. I may have considered induction if I was building from scratch, but it’s really not worth it for us right now. Especially knowing the sources of our electricity at the moment.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#65

Post by rascul »

dangus wrote: post #21
fullspectrumdev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A proper extractor fan mitigates the problem entirely. For a lot of cooking, gas is simply superior in almost every way to induction or electric. Induction has a few advantages in certain situations, but not many - gas is more flexible. Now there is something to be said about people using insufficient extraction or not maintaining their ventilation/extraction systems for sure, or grossly underspeccing them so that th…

How many people can afford a proper extractor fan? I’ve literally never seen a rental with one.

I repair rental homes and most of the homes I work on have a proper fan vented to the outside. These homes I work on are all single family detached homes.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#66

Post by CharlieDigital »

dangus wrote: post #19
bilsbie wrote: post #16

Let’s let adults be adults and buy whatever stove they want.

And what about their kids that didn’t choose to get asthma? And what about the adults who wouldn’t have chosen a gas stove if they had balanced and factual information rather than information tainted by corporate influence? https://youtu.be/gCMzjJjuxQI

When my daughter was younger, I thought she might have respiratory issues from being born premature due to mild coughing fits almost her entire life. Tested for allergies and nothing came up.

When she was 5, we moved to a new house. When I read the recent research, I realized that this coughing declined around when we moved.

The difference? The old house had a microwave over the stove and vented inside. The new house vented outside.

Anecdotal, but the research connected the dots for me.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#67

Post by Jailbird »

cassepipe wrote: post #46
Jailbird wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely not an expert, but I would say nothing of note has changed with our utility bill since we replaced the gas cooktop with an induction cooktop. The marketing will tell you it's more efficient because all the energy goes into the cooking (heating the pot) instead of heating the room as with gas. But hey, that's marketing. One other concern was control: we did find out that the power levels on our model we…

It sure is marketing and... basic physics ?

OK yeah, I was just attempting not to project authority but let the data (which I didn't have handy) be the important part.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#68

Post by ReflectedImage »

fullspectrumdev wrote: post #13
haizhung wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t care about the impact on your health or your children’s health? That seems short sighted to me.

A proper extractor fan mitigates the problem entirely. For a lot of cooking, gas is simply superior in almost every way to induction or electric. Induction has a few advantages in certain situations, but not many - gas is more flexible. Now there is something to be said about people using insufficient extraction or not maintaining their ventilation/extraction systems for sure, or grossly underspeccing them so that th…

Per the article, a proper extractor fan doesn't migrate the problem.

So you are basically poisoning yourself and your family.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#69

Post by nephy »

nemo44x wrote: post #51
dangus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induction ranges heat up water faster and use less energy than gas ranges: https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki... Since you mentioned that you have backup heating, I assume you don’t live in a very cold climate, in which case a heat pump for your backup heat and water heater is your most efficient lowest cost option, not a gas system. Part of your gas bill is just paying the gas company for a…

Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case. It is not on the critical path for optimizations either. Unless you subsist on boiling noodles when you’re late for a meeting.

I use an electric kettle for this.
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