Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hyperloop One to shut down

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 490 posts

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#471

Post by godelski »

awill88 wrote: post #419
sonicanatidae wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. It's not about how much money is available. It's always about the choices of where they spend it and those choices rarely benefit the citizens, somewhat ironically.

It’s not even just about choices, it’s about consensus and we’ve forgotten how to see a win from a partial loss. We no longer know compromise at a federal level

I don't think it is so much about win/partial loss but considering large views or long term thinking/strategizing. Especially true in politics because we've developed a system where a representative is only concerned about the timeframe of an election cycle, rather than concerned with what they can do for the people. And we hold them accountable by that metric. So any project that is longer than an election cycle can end up being a game of hot potato where the last one holding it loses. In reality there are several members to blame. It's like how people judge a president based on the economy yet often policies they make don't actually have large effects until years later (definitely some are shorter term, but also remember that effects compound and set a stage). World is too complicated and we're too dumb. We can be not as dumb, but that's not quite easy because complexity is de facto hard.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#472

Post by jokteur »

xnx wrote: post #467
jokteur wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study [1] cites a 80 to 280 tCO2 per km of new high speed track laid (it includes bridges, tunnels, ...). Lets lay 700km of new high speed tracks (Orlando to Atlanta). So 700km of high speed track is 56'000 tCO2 to 196'000 tCO2. Orlando to Atlanta will have sold more than airplane 310'000 seats in December 2023. At 250g per km per passenger, we get to 54'250 tCO2 emitted on this route alone in December. You can…

Thanks for referencing some data. Unfortunately, on page 10 it looks like they are specifically excluding the impact of constructing rail lines ("construction infrastructure"). The high speed rail line from LA to San Francisco (~380 miles) was estimated to cost $128 billion. The Orlando to Atlanta route is longer (~440 miles), but lets pretend it could be built for the same cost. A one-way plane ticket from Orlando t…

Sorry but you misread the report. They are saying that typical eco-calculator usually do not take into account the emissions from construction and maintenance. You can see on the document that on table 2, emissions of construction is taken into account. It is the point of the report. So my point about carbon emission stands. You can build miles of high-speed rail and offset the emissions caused by construction compared to the same route in airplane in a few months.

Also, the California is the most expensive high speed rail project in the world. The US simply does not have the expertise anymore to build effienctly big infrastructure project. In comparison, Spain is building highspeed rail for 17.7m€ per km (also Spain has a lot of mountains), while the rest of European countries build at 45.5m€ per km. This makes this 700km line more like 12.4 billions € to 31.9 billions €. So 50 to 89 years worth of plane tickets.

I agree, still expensive, but then by the same logic you should stop investing in highway expansion, because they are super expensive and always prove ineffective at reducing congestion. The US has proven in the past they are able to make big projects. Why admit defeat and try to keep the status quo?

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#473

Post by lemper »

Eisenstein wrote: post #468
thegrim000 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government sent out a hit team to forcefully rob every single last penny of net worth every US billionaire has, what impact would that income have on the national debt? I'm pretty sure it'd be extremely negligible.

'Tax the billionaires' is a red herring. Nobody should use that or engage with it. The issue is that they exist in the first place.

nah, bro. like pigs, you fatten them up and then eat them. do it in 3 or 4 cycles and then there will be no more billionaires.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#474

Post by larksimian »

Eisenstein wrote: post #396
nojvek wrote: post #394

Meanwhile China has built 42,000km (26,100 miles) of high speed rail. https://www.travelchinaguide.com/china-trains/high-speed/rai... US is now cursed by their own success. Eisenhower jump started the highway to connect all of US as the largest transport infrastructure project. We have been riding the success of that for a massive economy. We are on the plateauing side of that S curve. cursed because we spent a ton o…

Why do people say 'we don't have the money' for stuff like infrastructure? We never have a problem finding the 'trillions of dollars for wars'. It seems there is only ever a problem coming up with funds these days when it is to invest in things that help our own citizens (outside of just throwing money at them).

It's easier to steal pentagon contract money than money issued for highways or train tracks therefore military contracting has a higher profit margin therefore that's what the lobbyists advocate for.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#475

Post by thelastgallon »

Eisenstein wrote: post #396
nojvek wrote: post #394

Meanwhile China has built 42,000km (26,100 miles) of high speed rail. https://www.travelchinaguide.com/china-trains/high-speed/rai... US is now cursed by their own success. Eisenhower jump started the highway to connect all of US as the largest transport infrastructure project. We have been riding the success of that for a massive economy. We are on the plateauing side of that S curve. cursed because we spent a ton o…

Why do people say 'we don't have the money' for stuff like infrastructure? We never have a problem finding the 'trillions of dollars for wars'. It seems there is only ever a problem coming up with funds these days when it is to invest in things that help our own citizens (outside of just throwing money at them).

They do have money. But off by a few orders of magnitude. Proposed Texas high-speed Houston-Dallas rail lands $500K in federal funds: https://energycapitalhtx.com/high-speed-houston-dallas-rail-...

That 500K should be enough to build 1/4 of a bathroom: https://slate.com/business/2022/10/san-francisco-toilet-mill...

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#476

Post by talldatethrow »

eesmith wrote: post #326
bombcar wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same bad math that says it costs $250k to raise a kid so the family down the street with five kids must have access to $1.25 million.

Yes, that's why cherry-picking a Honda Civic reaching 200K miles is an outlier which does not provide insight on the average vehicle operating cost per mile. It's also bad math to say the only cost to driving 383 miles is the fuel. If you would believe talldatethrow's math, you should get a job driving your car for a CA state job. You would get reimbursed $0.625 /mile for something which costs you no more than $100/3…

1, I used a Honda Civic because its a great car. If you choose to run this experiment with a NICER car, you've already proven that you are ok paying a premium for luxury or 'premium' experience. Thus, you're clearly ok spending extra for a nicer experience of being in your nice car and not having to park, wait, ride, rent car, return car, wait, etc.

And I assure you, I know many people that get paid miles for using their personal car for work, and flat out consider it a source of income because of how favorably it is paid out.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#477

Post by bitcurious »

r-w wrote: post #115
chrisco255 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To "disrupt" it in that context was meant in the startup vocabulary, it means to improve some existing thing. The high speed rail project in CA is a testament to the dysfunctionality of that state when it comes to building infrastructure.

Not true. See the author: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lan...

I read through a bit of that thread+screenshots, and from what I can gather Paris never actually interacted with Elon, and is basing his retelling on an uncharitable interpretation of someone else’s account.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#478

Post by randyrand »

beembeem wrote: post #441
rschiavone wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be the reason. "Musk reportedly told his biographer, Ashlee Vance, that the Hyperloop proposal was motivated by “his hatred for California’s proposed high-speed rail system,” which he felt would be too slow, outdated and expensive. “With any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled,” Vance wrote." https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/elon-m... https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/149…

And when I found this out, I lost a lot of respect for him. All his talk of sustainability is junk when you see words like this.

if rider numbers are bad, the rail will have been net bad for the environment

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#479

Post by zizee »

davidgerard wrote: post #399
zizee wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scuttlebutt was related to the Californian high speed rail project. Would that really take a significant number of cars off the road? And what was the expected completion date? My gut says that it would have an inconsequential impact to Tesla, but I'd be interested if people have numbers that make this theory hold water.

what "make this theory hold water" is that Musk said it outright.

The theory I am talking about is Musk's motivations was for Tesla to sell cars.

I think he was pretty vocal about the high speed rail project not being great, and it not a great way to spend tax payers dollars. Can you point to where he said he wanted it cancelled to sell more cars?

And my question stands. How many cars will be taken off the roads when the high speed rail is complete? Even better, would be to share the numbers with timeline of each phase.

From what I read, the first phase of the high speed rail was not due to open until 2030, and be just 275 km. It does not sound like an existential threat to Tesla.

I know musk is a divisive character, and is much derided in HN, but it seems to me a lot of the stuff on the internet and press that people attribute to him don't stand up to much scrutiny. It would be good if we could hold ourselves to a higher standard on HN.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#480

Post by withinboredom »

dougmwne wrote: post #465
mrkeen wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Auto Burglary: 783 Auto Theft: 136 This is why I'm too scared to take my car with me when I ride the subway.

They literally do take their car with them when they ride. Lots of BART stations have huge parking decks because they service areas that are not walkable or dense so you “Park & Ride” to get into the city.

That has very little to do with public transit and everything to do with a lack of public transit.
Post reply on HN