African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings • Hacker News Board

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#151

Post by csomar » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

Geisterde wrote: post #139

j4yav wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their grievances are pretty simple and straightforward, they even put them in writing on their flag, which is just green and red text on a white background. Which ones specifically are you willing to support or concede for peace? Here's the list: 1. God is the Greatest 2. Death to America 3. Death to Israel 4. A Curse Upon the Jews 5. Victory to Islam

Does it make you feel intelligent to reduce a complex organism to whats on a flag?

You've got to give them credit for their flag, though. Talk about adhering to the KISS principle :)

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#152

Post by Geisterde » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:08 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #125

Geisterde wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make no mistake, the moment iran decides they are shutting the straight of hormuz, its shut, and it would take aircraft carriers at the bottom of the ocean to open it via force. The US is currently 5-10 years behind in weapons technology, and iran has a lot of those weapons waiting in systems of mountain range bunkers that you would have to get through. War with iran will be as historically significant as the sacking…

> the moment iran decides they are shutting the straight of hormuz, its shut We are threatening to shut the Strait. We sailed a CVN to Hormuz to telegraph two can tango. > US is currently 5-10 years behind in weapons technology Compared to Iran?! We’re literally liquidating their newest air-defence systems with 90s-era kit in Ukraine. > War with iran will be as historically significant as the sacking of rome on our o…

You are playing with action figures, pushing troop markers around a board with no regard for the reality as it stands.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#153

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

Geisterde wrote: post #149

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all suicide bombings from 1980 to 2005 were the result of a people being occupied These aren’t suicide bombings. They’re helicopter-assisted seizures and anti-ship missile attacks. > I find it far more likely that theyd rather be home with their kids than out in the field guarding an unguardable missile launcher So would have many Nazis. For what it’s worth, I don’t think the Houthis are evil. Their domestic war is…

I was using suicide bombings to demonstrate that people dont willingly throw their lives away unless they have a good reason for it. Look, just, for a second consider that you are treating iran as a bogeyman, they gave us intelligence on al queda after 9/11, they held a candlelight vigil in tehran for the victims. How much do you really know about iran? Are you really so confident that you understand everything thats…

> consider that you are treating iran as a bogeyman

I’m not. I’m treating them as a decision maker who won’t negotiate. Which they are. That leaves few options for a quick resolution outside military ones.

> Are you really so confident that you understand everything thats happened there?

Compared to the guy defending the Nazis, yes.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#154

Post by csomar » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

I wrote an article the other day on how beneficial ownership makes this situation worse: https://omarabid.com/beneficial-ownership

As ships can't be anonymous (both on ownership and journey), this reduce the intelligence work to 0 by "hostile" entities. This would not have been possible if privacy was the default as their options will be reduced to a full blockade.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#155

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:12 PM UTC

Geisterde wrote: post #152

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the moment iran decides they are shutting the straight of hormuz, its shut We are threatening to shut the Strait. We sailed a CVN to Hormuz to telegraph two can tango. > US is currently 5-10 years behind in weapons technology Compared to Iran?! We’re literally liquidating their newest air-defence systems with 90s-era kit in Ukraine. > War with iran will be as historically significant as the sacking of rome on our o…

You are playing with action figures, pushing troop markers around a board with no regard for the reality as it stands.

> are playing with action figures, pushing troop markers around a board with no regard for the reality as it stands

Great, we’ve devolved into generic ad hominem.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#156

Post by nradov » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #84

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is the de facto Shia Government of Yemen They “exert de facto authority over the bulk of North Yemen” [1]. The problem is there is no single person who controls their armed groups. So striking a deal with one person provides zero assurance around what the others will do. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement#Houthi-contr...

I for the life of me can't figure out how countries end up in situations where a large subset of said population is not only armed by effectively uncontrollable by the government. How do they get money for arms? Where do the arms come from? Why is the government unable to exert any realistic control within their own borders? I know its a complex political problem, but I still don't get how in 2023 we still have warlo…

Much of the arms are smuggled in from Iran. The Iranians use the Houthis as proxies to harass their enemies in Saudi Arabia and Israel. Several arms shipments have been intercepted in recent years but others are getting thought; it's impossible to stop and search every vessel in such a busy shipping channel.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#157

Post by zdragnar » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #136

zdragnar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They claim to believe that the STRINDA was going to make a delivery at an Israeli port: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/cruise-missile-yem... .

Okay, now do the Clara and Swan Atlantic. What you’ve got is independent militant groups firing off while a rear PR group tries to project control.

Both the Clara and Swan were supposedly refusing to answer hails:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/ukmto-ambrey-repor...

    Houthi spokesperson Yahya Sarea identified the vessels as the MSC Clara and Norwegian-owned Swan Atlantic, and said the attacks were carried out after their crews failed to respond to calls from the group.

There's no mystery here. Nobody anywhere is wondering just what hijinks these groups are going to get up to next. They aren't rednecks getting drunk and shooting off for giggles.

If they suspect a ship is headed to Israel, they attack it, with military equipment they (most likely) got from Iran.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#158

Post by smashah » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:17 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #127

smashah wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for the Yemeni government forces to sort out. Not for hackernews Yemen-flattening enthusiasts to determine.

> That's for the Yemeni government forces to sort out. Anyone who starts taking potshots at civilian neutrally-flagged ships in international waters should not be surprised by a response.

No such response from the Americans for taking potshots and killing 10k+ civilian children with US bombs and Israeli sniper drones.

Crazy how that works. Maybe someone should look into that.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#159

Post by taeric » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

Geisterde wrote: post #134

yard2010 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing life. This is diplomacy, while we can argue about its effectiveness I'm certain we can agree that it's still better than China, Russia and or Iran. It's just a matter of perspective - the west is the lesser evil here

Im describing a pattern of US involvenent in the middle east that has killed millions of people, actually. Russia never getting a friendly welcome from the rest of europe after the collapse of the soviet union has to try to work with the only other neighbors they have, and havent had nearly as many problems and incurring far less wrath from the arab world as we have. Chinas MO is not to start wars, and to date has no…

Unfortunately for the "US is bad" narrative, conflict in the Middle East far predates US involvement. Genocides, ethnic cleansing, forced conversions, and plenty of other atrocities have been happening globally for a long time. These did not come into being with the modern world.

This is not to say that there are not valid criticisms of US actions. But the Arab world deserves more criticism than it typically gets.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#160

Post by AlecSchueler » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #145

AlecSchueler wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't China consistently critical of violent aggression? I don't see how their being critical of Israeli violence is supporting terrorism elsewhere. China are one of the main players in trying to encourage peace talks between Saudi Arabia and Yemen. I feel like you're maybe trying to make a different point but avoiding saying it?

> Aren't China consistently critical of violent aggression? No, they frequently support violence when it’s internal suppression. They also support violence for e.g. taking Taiwan. The simple answer is China can have its cake and eat it too, so why not.

Sorry, I thought aggression on the international stage was more clearly implied. I understand there are issues in Taiwan, Tibet, Ugyyhur province. But they aren't invading countries around the world to involve themselves in other people's problems.

I'm not sure what you're saying in your last paragraph. China have worked consistently with SA and Yemen to try to facilitate peace talks. They were opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are opposed to Israeli aggression.