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The Richest Countries in 2023

economist.com

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Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#51

Post by 6bb32646d83d »

refurb wrote: post #38
killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

I guess it depends on what you’re looking for because I had the opposite experience. I went from carefully budgeting each month, thinking about buying a house maybe in a decade (or two). And put away a few hundred for retirement each month. Job opportunities were ok, but options limited. Then I went to the US and got a 100% pay bump. And pay has only increased after that. I bought a house 2 years after arriving in th…

Same experience here.

Yes, my friends back home are on vacations 5 weeks a year. But I can do something in the US that almost nobody can do in Europe: put away >$100k every year and run toward financial independence and an early retirement.

Back in Europe, my friends don't even think about something like that. They all just accept that they'll be working until 63, 65 or whatever the retirement age will be when they're older.

And it's not just tech. My wife is in another sector and also makes a lot more than she would in Europe.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#52

Post by chrisweekly »

jakub_g wrote: post #39
epolanski wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP being a weak and misleading metric has been known to be a factor from many decades. It's just an easy and lazy measurement most can (or think they) understand.

Apart from money not being everything, it's also much "averages vs medians" (vs distributions) again. People love using averages because they're a single number, and easy to calculate. Medians are more difficult to calc, and distributions and percentiles are something most people are never taught, and it's no longer a single number which is easy to (artificially) compare.

Huh? Mean ("average"), median and mode are each a single number that provides a distinct measurement of central tendency.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#53

Post by thatwasunusual »

ObscureScience wrote: post #12

It would be interesting to see this using median income or similar meassure rather than GDP per capita. Inequality by itself doesn't have to be a problem (depending on economic ideology) but if all purchasing power is restricted to a few ultra rich that should be relevant to the discussion of whether a country is rich.

All this data is available on the interwebz. I'm a Norwegian, but has worked in several countries around the world, among them the US.

According to this site,[0] the median income in US and Norway was $24K-ish in 2021 (2019 numbers for Norway), while this Wikipedia article[1] lists countries based on average annual working hours (OECD, 2022).

Based on this, we can deduce that:

* Americans are paid $13.3/hour

* Norwegians are paid $16.9/hour

It's worth noting that even though Norway doesn't have a "general" minimum wage, except for some jobs, it's considered to be $21/hour.

[0] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#54

Post by splintercell »

killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

> The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich".

The thing you're feeling is not same amount of "rich", but same amount of security.

If your mental model shifted, You would find out the difference between these two things. For instance, if your aim was to make as much money as possible as soon as possible, then move to a place with much lower cost of living and work far less (or not at all), then you would not find this to be the same amount of "rich".

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#55

Post by RadixDLT »

Mizza wrote: post #21

I think these calculations are essentially horseshit. Norway is an oil company with a nation state subsidiary. Salaries and purchasing power are significantly lower than the in US. Is there an alternative to GDP that doesn't include externally invested oil profits?

it's not just Norway, all the oil rich countries float to top on this list. So indeed they are calculating how rich is the country's bank accounts because the money is distributed through social services, which is basically free money.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#56

Post by RetroTechie »

0xDEF wrote: post #22
joenot443 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some day we'll lose this ability and it'll be a sad day for HN. Feels like a special trick we've got to enjoy while we can. Nice submission OP - I learned something.

It is also interesting that some of highest income people on Earth use the archive trick instead of paying to get through the paywall. Who actually pays for legacy media anymore?

It is also interesting that a news outlet based in one of the richest countries on Earth feels the need to put up a paywall on every single article.

Other options: a) Just have subscribers, and make do with whatever those proceeds are. b) Give subscribers access to some freemium articles. c) Give subscribers early-bird access to articles. Free access to others later (say, +1 day or so). d) Give non-subscribers 1..3 freebie articles, then paywall.

To name a few. But no: paywall everything, monetize to the last bit. Sign of the times, or indication of this news outlet's priorities / ethics?

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#57

Post by RadixDLT »

there are 100 ways to calculate who is the richest country and you will get 100 deferent results

the countries on the list also happen to be the most socialists who distributes half of your paycheck to everybody else

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#58

Post by CalRobert »

killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

It's remarkable how there are some things I just couldn't find in the US at (nearly) any price. I wanted to live somewhere I felt safe with my kids biking to school and living car-free as a family. And there are some places that kinda-sorta-barely might be doable for that (Portland, culdesac in Tempe but I've zero interest in Arizona, maybe Davis, parts of New York though it's not ideal for kids biking safely, one of those cities with golf-cart paths), but no matter what my budget I couldn't really find anywhere that gives me what I get for the price of a basic house in pretty much any city in the Netherlands.

I know I'd have more money in the US, but having lived there for 30 years, I'm confident my quality of life would be worse.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#59

Post by a1j9o94 »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #10
TheFragenTaken wrote: post #5

I read into the numbers behind "hours worked" from OECD [1]. It seems wild to me that the United States on average works 500 more hours a year, compared to the top counties on that list, and 300 more than the EU average. I've never really been a proponent (or opponent) of the four-day work week, but this seems to indicate you become "richer" if you work less. At least according to this type of ranking. [1]: https://d…

More of the total work that people have to do, including chores, is in the US work that people pay for and are paid for, rather then doing it for themselves.

In my anecdotal experience this hasn't been the case. Most people I know in the US can't afford to pay people to do house work or chores. I'm thinking in contrast to a place like India where it's the norm to have hired help for things like cooking, cleaning, and laundry.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#60

Post by FirmwareBurner »

landedgentry wrote: post #50
gumby wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metrics are complex and ill understood, because few people can make the comparison you have. The thing that jumps out to me about life in the USA is how much time you spend maintaining it rather than living it. Chasing down bills for health care, until recently a lack of autopay, steady stream of paperwork and decisions from the schools…just a million fine-grained decisions and responsibilities when compared to o…

It's death by a thousand paper cuts. A lot of things simply cannot be depended on to work in the U.S., and you have to spend a lot of time chasing them down. More examples: budgeting flexible spending accounts, choosing health insurance annually, finding doctors in your network (and checking again and again, with multiple sources), hotels losing your reservation, airlines overbooking flights, mail and deliveries disa…

> finding doctors in your network (and checking again and again, with multiple sources)

I have a similar problem in Europe too. Most of the good public state-insurance doctors are overbooked and my option is to keep calling every doctor on a 50km radius continuously, hoping to find a free specialist with an appointment, or pay up privately out of my already small paycheck for a spot at a private doctor.

>hotels losing your reservation, airlines overbooking flights, mail and deliveries disappearing, people promising and not returning calls, etc.

That doesn't sound like anything US specific but more like a collection of things from the "shit happens" category. Same things can happen in Europe too, and some have happened to me.

I think you imagine the grass must be always greener elsewhere. It's not. Every place has its own set of perks and problems.

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