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Hyperloop One to shut down

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Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#381

Post by chrisco255 »

_ea1k wrote: post #112
chrisco255 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech is fine, right? It's the long game you have to play with regulators and state and local officials to get right of way to build the tracks or tubes in the first place. Under current regulations, it would take a decade of intense focus and politickin' to probably achieve a minimal viable example.

It doesn't sound like anyone demonstrated the technology as originally described. Trains in tunnels are possible, of course, but probably not the super high speed, air cushioned thing that was envisioned.

Of course they are: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev

The tech already works even without a partial vacuum. But a partial vacuum would be all the better.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#382

Post by chrisco255 »

panick21_ wrote: post #110
chrisco255 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech is fine, right? It's the long game you have to play with regulators and state and local officials to get right of way to build the tracks or tubes in the first place. Under current regulations, it would take a decade of intense focus and politickin' to probably achieve a minimal viable example.

The tech is actually not fine. The initial idea was that it would be a near vacume and that the sled would use air cushion to levitate. And that simply doesn't actually work. That is why all of the companies doing it switched to maglev. And we know the issues with maglev.

Mag lev works just fine in Japan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev

A partial vacuum would be trivial to achieve and you could by all means use mag lev + partial vacuum in a tube.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#383

Post by chrisco255 »

tjpnz wrote: post #306
chrisco255 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech is fine, right? It's the long game you have to play with regulators and state and local officials to get right of way to build the tracks or tubes in the first place. Under current regulations, it would take a decade of intense focus and politickin' to probably achieve a minimal viable example.

The white paper at the very least wasn't. It contradicts itself in multiple places and it seems the author has some misunderstandings around basic physics.

What are those misunderstandings? Keep hearing comments that can't speak to anything in particular but confidently assert how unfeasible it is.

Mag lev works: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev

Nothing in the idea of a hyperloop precludes the use of a maglev propulsion system. The partial vacuum wouldn't even be necessary but might help with efficiency. Partial vacuums are just air pumps.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#384

Post by chrisco255 »

r-w wrote: post #115
chrisco255 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To "disrupt" it in that context was meant in the startup vocabulary, it means to improve some existing thing. The high speed rail project in CA is a testament to the dysfunctionality of that state when it comes to building infrastructure.

Not true. See the author: https://twitter.com/parismarx/status/1571628269555826688?lan...

That's literally just hearsay in a tweet thread. The high speed rail project was never cancelled and certainly not because of any hypothetical hyperloops. Very convenient scape goat for California's terrible government though. Hyperloop was a brief headline generating concept. If that's enough to derail a $70 billion dollar project then the project was always doomed.

My God as if ideating on alternatives is enough to kill a project! What world is this? have you ever built anything?

California's "high speed" rail was still going to take 5 or 6 hours for the SF to LA route. No better than driving! Musk was correct to propose something different.

It's been 15 years since that project was proposed and we're no closer to a true high speed rail between those two cities!

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#385

Post by eesmith »

titanomachy wrote: post #197
mynameisnoone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a controversial centibillionaire didn't do the math on 0 atm tube transportation and proclaimed it to be so. Also, people hate people like Thunderf00t who tear down dumb ideas that people desperately want to believe in because feelings and tribal toxic positivity > logic.

Hectobillionaire, “centi-“ means 1/100

"Centi-" as a prefix can mean 100, though metric use is more common.

For example, "centipede" nominally means 100 feet, though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centipede says "Despite the name, no centipede has exactly 100 pairs of legs; number of legs ranges from 15 pairs to 191 pairs, always an odd number."

Centibillionaire is the obvious extension of centimillionaire, and "centimillionaire" has been around for a long time. https://archive.org/details/per_chicago-daily-tribune_the-ch... shows a use in 1883, explicitly referencing $100,000,000 of Vanderbilt capital.

(A Google Books search finds two other uses of centimillionaire in the 1800s.)

Another old word using centi- to mean 100 is "centimillennium", for 100 thousand years. Here is an 1882 use: https://archive.org/details/loverinschartoft00love/page/36/m... and Wiktionary adds several more recent uses at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/centimillennium .

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#386

Post by j4yav »

timwaagh wrote: post #374
j4yav wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a car and a bike in the Netherlands. Most everyone I know has both. Both are nice to have at different times, and I've never experienced any of the nightmares GP is describing. I was curious so I just checked, and the number of cars is just shy of the number of people of driving age, even in the bicycle paradise of the Netherlands.

My data does not align. We have 15 million adults and nine million cars.

It's possible I was looking at motor vehicles rather than specifically cars. Even six out of ten adults having a personal car would be a statstic I think that would surprise people who think everyone here only rides bikes.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#387

Post by omnimus »

j4yav wrote: post #370
omnimus wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add riding a bike (or electric bike) in most of Dutch cities. It can be even fun.

I have a car and a bike in the Netherlands. Most everyone I know has both. Both are nice to have at different times, and I've never experienced any of the nightmares GP is describing. I was curious so I just checked, and the number of cars is just shy of the number of people of driving age, even in the bicycle paradise of the Netherlands.

Sure but you cant bike and drive the car at the same time right? So they own a car and choose to bike. Imho this is even bigger win than people who have to bike because they cant afford a car.

Lots of the peoples car needs would probably be covered by some form of car sharing but this is something car manufacturers hate and it has been always quite expensive. Maybe that will change.

New driver licenses are rapidly dropping in europe. Lets see whats gonna happen but i think Netherlands/Flanders are for sure important pioneers to get inspired from.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#388

Post by cheschire »

Symbiote wrote: post #372
j4yav wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a car and a bike in the Netherlands. Most everyone I know has both. Both are nice to have at different times, and I've never experienced any of the nightmares GP is describing. I was curious so I just checked, and the number of cars is just shy of the number of people of driving age, even in the bicycle paradise of the Netherlands.

A difference is most Dutch families have one car, whereas the majority of American families have two or more.

At least three of my neighbors I can see from my front door here in America have 5 to 8 cars.

But that’s also because they have to be multigenerational to afford a SFH these days.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#389

Post by _fizz_buzz_ »

chrisco255 wrote: post #382
panick21_ wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech is actually not fine. The initial idea was that it would be a near vacume and that the sled would use air cushion to levitate. And that simply doesn't actually work. That is why all of the companies doing it switched to maglev. And we know the issues with maglev.

Mag lev works just fine in Japan: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCMaglev A partial vacuum would be trivial to achieve and you could by all means use mag lev + partial vacuum in a tube.

Nobody doubts maglev works (there is also a maglev in China and Germany also had a test track since the 80s). There are a lot of things that technically work, but are not economical. The math just doesn't add up to build this in any way that is economically reasonable.

Re: Hyperloop One to shut down

#390

Post by mschuster91 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #93
vaidhy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe 40mill is the average across the network. The 8 billion is for a specific portion in a high CoL area with the majority being land acquisition costs. If you have a dig a new subway station in middle of Frankfurt, for an infrastructure that does not exist today, it would not be the average.

> The 8 billion is for a specific portion in a high CoL area with the majority being land acquisition costs. This is exactly the kind of thing I was suspecting was by misleading by the original number. "America can't build affordable high-speed rail" suggests that that their is same lacking capability in engineering. "Land costs make building in dense areas unprofitable" is a completely different story.

> "America can't build affordable high-speed rail" suggests that that their is same lacking capability in engineering. "Land costs make building in dense areas unprofitable" is a completely different story.

The reason doesn't matter - the end result does, namedly that America is incapable for a multitude of reasons (lack of political support, NIMBYs, excessive land value, unions ridiculous even to a union-loving European, lack of experience in planning and construction of such projects) to build high-speed rail.

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