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Math Team

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Re: Math Team

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not unique to the U.S., and also is called corruption or cronyism in general terms when money mostly enables one to “effect systemic change”. The U.S. civil rights protests stand in stark contrast as one example, at least.

People only call it corruption when they disagree with it. When they agree with using money to solve problems it's called charity.

Hmm, I am not sure. If you look at different examples of corruption vs. charity, a defining characteristic of corruption (I think) is that it benefits a small and select group of organizations or people who would have been find even if they had not received that benefit. OTOH charity is usually beneficiary-blind, absent any criteria for being a recipient, e.g. being afflicted with a disease, or coming from economically disadvantaged backgrounds etc. Secondly, organizations or people who receive charity do not experience an increase in power or influence upon the receipt of a benefit, which is usually the case in receiving a benefit under corrupt circumstances. But it really all depends, and there are of course overlapping scenarios. It just means that auditory processes are required, not that one should assume "charity for causes I don't like" = corruption.

Re: Math Team

#102

Although I empathize with the struggle of the journey, having gone through a similar path of math team -> Stanford (where I briefly ran into the author), I think this is a particularly uncharitable characterization of math competitions. Yes, there are many students (even more these days) that are in the grind for the accolades and college admissions, but math competitions were genuinely my favorite part of high schoo…

I also enjoyed math (and related) competitions and continued them in college and beyond. Though I don't think math or algorithm puzzles are good "technical" interview questions, I was still sad to see Google Code Jam come to an end.

Re: Math Team

#103
post #5

Went to the same school, was on the same math team, but was a year ahead of the author. Quit math team in my junior year because I wasn't at a competitive level, but it was a great time while I was on it. As a SWE, I rarely get to exercise the tenacity and problem solving skills I learned on the math team, but when I do they are "transformative" to the rest of the team. > Nights were for other worthless extracurricul…

Would you have stayed on team if it was at a less competitive school and region?

Re: Math Team

#104

The author and I have discussed this elsewhere, but we had dramatically different experiences with competitive math, and I think part of the key is that he experienced it as a part of the college admissions grind, while I experienced it as an escape from the classroom to go do cool puzzles. My major takeaway from his article was "The things we do in the high-stakes holistic admissions structure we've set up are insan…

Interestingly, his takeaway seems to be that it was probably all worth it.

The rat race is worth it for the winners, but bad for society overall.

Re: Math Team

#105
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the intense speed pressure to create artificial rankings for competition, "drilling" is "practice for understanding". OP says in the article that he didn't understand what he was doing, but was just trying to imitate people who did to try to appear brilliant. And he claimed that most students in club were like this, due to parenting and teaching that was focused on resume building for ignorant Admissions O…

"drilling" is "practice for understanding" It really isn’t. The essay makes this point as well. The acquaintance of his who was most interested in math dropped out of the contest team. He went on to become a mathematician because he was actually interested in understanding higher math and how things fit together. Drilling is just practicing computational tricks to be able to execute them by heart. This would be true…

You need to memorize things in order to be effective You need to be able to match patterns to things you've seen before. You need to develop an intuition.

LeBron James much prefers to slam dunks, but he still has to practice the game ad condition.

Re: Math Team

#106
I felt really sad reading this. I did mathematics contests at school - a team contest where our school's team reached the final and maths olympiads, where I did well enough to go to the IMO selection session. I loved them and have lots of fond memories of them. I wanted to do well obviously, but mostly did them because they were fun and loved beautiful mathematics problems and trying to solve them.

I wonder if part of the difference is that universities here in the UK aren't too worried by extracurriculars, especially for maths and science subjects.

I don't think my participation in contests was a factor in getting a place at Oxford - only the exams and to a lesser extent the interviews were. There's a short section on your general university application form where you write about such things, but unless you write something totally daft, it's general not a big factor. I interviewed people applying to Oxford for maths one year, and we really didn't pay any attention to the candidates' 'personal statements', although if any had been remarkable I guess we might have noticed. My mother was the maths admissions tutor at Imperial for years, and again they really didn't worry too much either - they cared about A-level grades mostly.

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