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Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#161

Post by thomastjeffery »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #96
thomastjeffery wrote: post #49

There is an expectation here that this person will react to being arrested and imprisoned with patience ; yet patience is not expected from literally anyone else involved . It's abundantly clear that he is not being punished for harming people . He is being punished for not playing along . "Refusing to play along" is one of the most well known symptoms of Autism. This person is being punished for neurodivergence. I'm…

Neurodivergence isn't a free pass to commit all the crimes you want. Lots of shooters are neurodivergent. That doesn't mean that society has to let them kill all they want.

If course it isn't.

Neurodivergence is a reality. Our justice system can do better than be ignorant of it. Our justice system can do better than to escalate its symptoms. As a participant in democracy, I will accept no lower standard for justice.

This person wasn't killing people. He was looking at secrets. There are people who don't understand that murder is wrong, and those people need to be institutionalized for the safety of everyone else. He isn't one of them.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#162

Post by thomastjeffery »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #93
thomastjeffery wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a company chooses to spend millions of dollars to "repair" damage does not mean that the damage itself should be valued the same. We are talking about companies with tens or hundreds of billions of dollars at their disposal. An executive could choose to spend $5 million on anything: that doesn't make the thing that valuable.

Ok. Ignore the dollar amount. His actions have physically injured people, destroyed property, and caused hundreds or thousands of people to spend otherwise productive time on fixing things. This wasn’t some hacker poking around because he could. He was stealing assets and then trying to ransom them back. He also just straight up stole crypto.

OK, then prosecute him for those things. Theft and blackmail are already crimes.

Don't give him a life sentence for sharing secrets. Don't ask me to pretend that isn't what this is about.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#163

Post by [deleted] »

switch007 wrote: post #74
nicklecompte wrote: post #53

BBC's actual headline: "Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order" The editorialized reframing of the headline is a bit subtle but still incredibly dishonest. An indefinite psychiatric order is simply not the same as a life sentence.

The BBC regularly updates headlines after publication (A/B testing for clicks) so it's possible it was the BBC, not the poster.

[deleted]

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#165

Post by cedws »

whalesalad wrote: post #127

Absolutely monumental waste of talent. Reminds me of how I got expelled from high school for "hacking" into their terrible infrastructure (without causing any damage whatsoever, other than to their pride). They threw the book at me. Threatened felonies. Were going on and on about how I will never vote, never be able to work as a postal worker etc. Get this kid into the right environment and he would probably be able…

He has (from what it sounds like) moderate autism. He's not just a misguided curious little fella that needs to be set on the right path. He needs a lot of help and to be kept far away from bad influences and temptation.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#166

Post by thomastjeffery »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #136
thomastjeffery wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Custody is violence. Most people respond with patience, because they understand deescalation is their best move. This person has Autism. I think it's not a leap to conclude that he simply doesn't understand that deescalation is the right move. He may not even realize or totally comprehend that deescalation is an option! If you want to convince me this person is a menace to society, then talk about his behavior before…

I agree he doesn't understand--that's why he's in a mental hospital. He can't understand how to behave in society.

Can society understand how to behave around him? Has society even tried?

I'm not working to give up that easily. This is a person with the rest of his life ahead of him; and that life has been locked in a room, and declared his responsibility.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#167

Post by zymhan »

Nextgrid wrote: post #98
kreddor wrote: post #8

> Kurtaj managed to breach Rockstar, the company behind GTA, using an Amazon Firestick, his hotel TV and a mobile phone. That's quite a feat. > Rockstar Games alone told the court that the hack cost it $5m to recover from plus thousands of hours of staff time. Either the kid is a genius or Rockstar really don't value their security much. Or maybe a bit of both?

> That's quite a feat. Is it? I don't see what the big deal is in installing a chrooted Linux environment (or SSH/RDP client to remote into an external machine) in an Android device? The fact this is even mentioned really smells like they're trying to make this guy sound more skilled and evil than he really is, potentially also to cover up for the fact that the police made an oversight in letting him be around intern…

> That's quite a feat.

> makes him any more of a monster

You're attacking a straw man.

Saying something is "a feat" is a long way from saying they're a monster.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#168

Post by make3 »

hnbad wrote: post #147
make3 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't work, you could never trust him at all, as he's expressed zero remorse and actually intent to continue to do crime, and is apparently very strongly autistic & doesn't understand the complex nuances of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable as a white hat hacker

> very strongly autistic & doesn't understand the complex nuances of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable This is a popular framing of autistic people but this assumes the problem is complex nuances. Most of the time it's not very nuanced at all. The problem is that autistic people are less likely to follow rules they don't agree with or see as arbitrary - in the positive this is sometimes described as a "st…

>>> The problem is that "normal" people are much more "morally flexible" and thus share an implicit understanding of what rules are important (i.e. actual rules) and which ones you're supposed to say you follow but aren't expected to.

This is exactly what I was referring to. We agree.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#169

Post by zymhan »

golergka wrote: post #158
fnordpiglet wrote: post #45

Life in prison for up to $10m in damages? At first I thought the number must be off by a factor of 10. I couldn’t help but see Dr Evil for a moment. These are at best property crimes, and while the sums are non trivial, sentencing children to indefinite imprisonment for a nonviolent crime against a megacorp is unconscionable.

No, not life in prison. Detention in a psychiatric hospital for an autistic person who is violently attacking other people. > dozens of reports of injury or property damage

"indefinite detention" as well, meaning the duration is not defined, but it's "infinite detention".

However, the article was definitely updated at some point, as others in the thread have pointed out. I read it earlier today and it did state life in detention.

That is certainly not helping the discussion out, unfortunately.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#170

Post by Nextgrid »

zymhan wrote: post #167
Nextgrid wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's quite a feat. Is it? I don't see what the big deal is in installing a chrooted Linux environment (or SSH/RDP client to remote into an external machine) in an Android device? The fact this is even mentioned really smells like they're trying to make this guy sound more skilled and evil than he really is, potentially also to cover up for the fact that the police made an oversight in letting him be around intern…

> That's quite a feat. > makes him any more of a monster You're attacking a straw man. Saying something is "a feat" is a long way from saying they're a monster.

The statement in the article would sound to a non-technical audience like this guy is some sort of hacking magician, and I'm sure nobody minds this perception for the reason I mentioned above.

I'm just providing a counterpoint as well as a reason why there's an incentive to make this guy sound more skilled & evil than he really is.

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