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Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#141

Post by thomastjeffery »

iimblack wrote: post #120
thomastjeffery wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a disregard for the law, or a disagreement ? The law is unjust to begin with. I don't blame anyone for breaking it twice. Would I recommend it? No. That doesn't mean I have to judge them for it. The scary behavior here is his violence; but that violence was clearly a reaction to the violence he was confronted with: being arrested and threatened. I'm not convinced that he is a threat to society . Sure, I can agr…

> They also stole directly from individuals through their cryptocurrency wallets. Plus other hacks in the article.

OK, so prosecute him for fraud. I would totally support that.

My criticism is that we aren't talking about fraud: we are talking about hacking. We are talking about legally-enforced secrets.

We are talking about a violent reaction to being prosecuted for hacking. What if was about the fraud instead? Would his reaction be the violent then? We can never know.

I'm supposed to be afraid to live in a society where this person participates. Afraid enough to sacrifice the rest of his life. I'm not convinced.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#142

Post by 6stringmerc »

aszantu wrote: post #128
squarefoot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And has no empathy, which makes him a lot more dangerous.

autism doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions

A valid diagnosis of one condition doesn’t preclude a litany of seriously dangerous other ones, either, correct?

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#143

Post by raverbashing »

hypeatei wrote: post #47
fxtentacle wrote: post #9

It concluded that Lapsus$ "made clear just how easy it was for its members (juveniles, in some instances) to infiltrate well-defended organisations". To me, that sounds more like they were not well-defended ...

This is typical writing from people who aren't familiar with technology. Could this kid be a genius? Maybe. It's more likely he found exploits like the ones we're seeing on the front page today[0]. It's not super impressive or surprising, to me at least. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38720544

A lot of "exploits" are simply a certain level of trust that normal people have in each other

I'd rather have him out than live in an absolute zero trust environment

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#145

Post by raverbashing »

dbeardsl wrote: post #56

I would say he's not in trouble for gaining access to systems, it's for extortion: > He worked with Kurtaj and other members of Lapsus$ to hack tech giant Nvidia and phone company BT/EE and steal data before demanding a four million dollar ransom, which was not paid.

This is exactly the issue (plus the stalking and the paying employees for inside access)

He's not a "grey hat", he was actively extorting those orgs

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#146

Post by hooverd »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #82
mise_en_place wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if I'd call that severe autism. That's psychopathic behavior, when you don't feel any remorse for your crimes.

I don't feel remorse for his crimes. Am I a psychopath? Hacking a game company just so you can show people what is being worked on should not be a crime .

Not even the theft or blackmail?

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#147

Post by hnbad »

make3 wrote: post #126
imglorp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone should hire him as a white hat. Maybe they have some kind of custodial guardianship where the employer can monitor him staying clean.

That wouldn't work, you could never trust him at all, as he's expressed zero remorse and actually intent to continue to do crime, and is apparently very strongly autistic & doesn't understand the complex nuances of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable as a white hat hacker

> very strongly autistic & doesn't understand the complex nuances of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable

This is a popular framing of autistic people but this assumes the problem is complex nuances. Most of the time it's not very nuanced at all. The problem is that autistic people are less likely to follow rules they don't agree with or see as arbitrary - in the positive this is sometimes described as a "strong sense of justice" but that phrase ignores that the perception of what is or isn't just or unjust can vary.

Studies have actually shown what is dismissively described as "moral rigidity", i.e. autistic people are more likely to follow ethical rules they profess even when they believe they can get away with breaking them and when nobody would find out. The problem is that "normal" people are much more "morally flexible" and thus share an implicit understanding of what rules are important (i.e. actual rules) and which ones you're supposed to say you follow but aren't expected to.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#148

Post by s1artibartfast »

drewcoo wrote: post #134
s1artibartfast wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neurodivergence isn't a free pass to commit all the crimes you want. Lots of shooters are neurodivergent. That doesn't mean that society has to let them kill all they want.

Neurodivergence is definitionally not understanding societal rules. Also known as laws. Neurodivergence is not a "free pass to commit crimes," but an excuse to be locked up by the authorities.

To be clear, they aren't being locked up for being neurodivergent. They are being locked up for committing crimes and refusing to stop if released.

Sure, not committing crimes is part of "playing the game", but it is a game you must play to go free.

If someone can't avoid sufficiently severe crime, that is a completely valid reason to lock someone up. It doesn't matter if they can help it or not

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#149

Post by withinrafael »

Relevant sections 23 (discharge of patients) and 41 (restriction of discharge from hospital) of the Mental Health Act of 1983

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/20/section/41

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/20/section/23

I'm curious about the success (discharge) rate in these cases. With only yearly clinician reports to Secretary of State, and all the hands involved, things appear grim. Hope I'm wrong.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#150

Post by yieldcrv »

There should be a length of time attached. Even in the US “life” means a limited amount of time that can be stacked over and over again, and we would totally call that excessive for these crimes or lack of remorse.

This is really foreign and sad what the UK is doing.

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