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Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#131

Post by gwern »

nicklecompte wrote: post #53

BBC's actual headline: "Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order" The editorialized reframing of the headline is a bit subtle but still incredibly dishonest. An indefinite psychiatric order is simply not the same as a life sentence.

It is still pretty bad. When you look up old famous crimes, they're usually in there basically for life. Leaving aside cases like the 'I don't like Mondays' girl (44 years and still in there; temporal lobe lesion, possible sociopathy) or the pre-Columbine shooting you probably don't remember recently profiled in NYer (paranoid schizophrenia; https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/12/04/what-happens-t... ) where they had regular guilty pleas, even someone like Reagan's shooter only just got out a few years ago after his family lobbied & paid a fortune for decades. As my old professor liked to say, you had to be crazy to do an insanity defense, because usually you'd be worse off if you won that defense than if you lost another defense.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#132

Post by LorenPechtel »

whalesalad wrote: post #127

Absolutely monumental waste of talent. Reminds me of how I got expelled from high school for "hacking" into their terrible infrastructure (without causing any damage whatsoever, other than to their pride). They threw the book at me. Threatened felonies. Were going on and on about how I will never vote, never be able to work as a postal worker etc. Get this kid into the right environment and he would probably be able…

Note the violence. This is a person that can't control themselves when things don't go their way.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#133

Post by [deleted] »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #110
dghlsakjg wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTFA. They tried restricting him, and he used a fire stick and a a phone to commit another major breach while out on bail. Then he told the court that he planned to keep hacking if he was released again. He wasn’t sentenced as such. He was determined to be mentally unfit, and put under confined treatment until he no longer poses a threat.

> RTFA. They tried restricting him, and he used a fire stick and a a phone to commit another major breach while out on bail. Then he told the court that he planned to keep hacking if he was released again. I did RTFA. I'm saying he could have been denied access to any electronic devices without supervision, which I think would be a better alternative.

[deleted]

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#134

Post by drewcoo »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #96
thomastjeffery wrote: post #49

There is an expectation here that this person will react to being arrested and imprisoned with patience ; yet patience is not expected from literally anyone else involved . It's abundantly clear that he is not being punished for harming people . He is being punished for not playing along . "Refusing to play along" is one of the most well known symptoms of Autism. This person is being punished for neurodivergence. I'm…

Neurodivergence isn't a free pass to commit all the crimes you want. Lots of shooters are neurodivergent. That doesn't mean that society has to let them kill all they want.

Neurodivergence is definitionally not understanding societal rules. Also known as laws.

Neurodivergence is not a "free pass to commit crimes," but an excuse to be locked up by the authorities.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#135

Post by whalesalad »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #132
whalesalad wrote: post #127

Absolutely monumental waste of talent. Reminds me of how I got expelled from high school for "hacking" into their terrible infrastructure (without causing any damage whatsoever, other than to their pride). They threw the book at me. Threatened felonies. Were going on and on about how I will never vote, never be able to work as a postal worker etc. Get this kid into the right environment and he would probably be able…

Note the violence. This is a person that can't control themselves when things don't go their way.

> dozens of reports of injury or property damage.

Eh, this is not outside the realm of expectations for an autistic teenager. Anyone locked in a cage will lash out, especially if they have neurological issues.

There is a way to harness this energy regardless.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#136

Post by LorenPechtel »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #27
A_Duck wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline glosses over "The court heard that Kurtaj had been violent while in custody with dozens of reports of injury or property damage."

Custody is violence. Most people respond with patience, because they understand deescalation is their best move. This person has Autism. I think it's not a leap to conclude that he simply doesn't understand that deescalation is the right move. He may not even realize or totally comprehend that deescalation is an option! If you want to convince me this person is a menace to society, then talk about his behavior before…

I agree he doesn't understand--that's why he's in a mental hospital. He can't understand how to behave in society.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#137

Post by chris_wot »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #66
imglorp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone should hire him as a white hat. Maybe they have some kind of custodial guardianship where the employer can monitor him staying clean.

It's tough though, how do you know that they won't use those skills against you? The individual seems relatively unstable and violent, even saying during a sentencing hearing that they'll continue to do illegal breaches whenever they can. Would be great to have them on the "good" side, but would probably take a lot of energy and resources as well. Hopefully this story will have a somewhat happy ending, because it see…

It’s not going to happen. He’s going to be closely supervised in a hospital indefinitely.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#138

Post by hnbad »

imglorp wrote: post #51
jvanderbot wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From TFA, and given prior hacks, he's very skilled.

Someone should hire him as a white hat. Maybe they have some kind of custodial guardianship where the employer can monitor him staying clean.

Having seen that play out in real life before, I don't think he'd be as much of an asset as a liability. The problem with white hats is they need to have an interest in following some set of rules. With this guy it sounds more like his rule set is defined by whatever he finds interesting with little concern for legality or what others might find acceptable.

It's similar to the problem with the asshole genius programmer. You can keep him around because he's a genius but being an asshole in a position of authority over others (by virtue of being a genius) will result in people not wanting to work for you and this can easily mean you're missing out in individuals or teams that would vastly outmatch the asshole genius.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#139

Post by 6stringmerc »

Nextgrid wrote: post #98
kreddor wrote: post #8

> Kurtaj managed to breach Rockstar, the company behind GTA, using an Amazon Firestick, his hotel TV and a mobile phone. That's quite a feat. > Rockstar Games alone told the court that the hack cost it $5m to recover from plus thousands of hours of staff time. Either the kid is a genius or Rockstar really don't value their security much. Or maybe a bit of both?

> That's quite a feat. Is it? I don't see what the big deal is in installing a chrooted Linux environment (or SSH/RDP client to remote into an external machine) in an Android device? The fact this is even mentioned really smells like they're trying to make this guy sound more skilled and evil than he really is, potentially also to cover up for the fact that the police made an oversight in letting him be around intern…

This is a really great angle and perspective to add in - I agree a noted habit / trend / short-hand in “severity” sometimes with technical subjects. I read through and also have heard some similar routine prep stories. Unusual? Absolutely!

Then again, it’s also unusual for a Dodge dealership in North Texas to have 7 Hellcat vehicles stolen in one night, but here we are.

So, I pick up that maybe the tech stack isn’t the most priority point - it’s the determination. The desire to continue through any avenue. Add that in with, reportedly a physical violence time in life, the persistent threat maybe can heal out of it?

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#140

Post by miki123211 »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #110
dghlsakjg wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTFA. They tried restricting him, and he used a fire stick and a a phone to commit another major breach while out on bail. Then he told the court that he planned to keep hacking if he was released again. He wasn’t sentenced as such. He was determined to be mentally unfit, and put under confined treatment until he no longer poses a threat.

> RTFA. They tried restricting him, and he used a fire stick and a a phone to commit another major breach while out on bail. Then he told the court that he planned to keep hacking if he was released again. I did RTFA. I'm saying he could have been denied access to any electronic devices without supervision, which I think would be a better alternative.

define "electronic devices."

What about credit cards? aTMs? Self-service checkouts? PIN pads (the things Europeans have to use in stores to pay by card)? Ticket machines and turnstiles? cars? radios? TVS?

All of these sound pretty harmless and are necessary to have a life these days, but he did demonstrate that he can use a TV for hacking.

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