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Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

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Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#531

Post by Tainnor »

WalterBright wrote: post #517
Tainnor wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you some unsolicited advice: You come off as rather arrogant and I would suggest reflecting on it. The idea that "legions of HNers" are telling you you're wrong sounds like confirmation bias. I basically see the same old discussion about free markets vs. market regulation every day on HN and it's not as if there was ever a clear-cut consensus. Maybe somewhat expectedly, radical positions such as "markets sh…

> You come off as rather arrogant I know. > instead it's just other people who "don't understand" free markets When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind.

> When I see an example of a successful commune or communist society, I'll think about changing my mind.

You have completely failed to understand what I was trying to say, instead quoting something out of context.

I'm assuming the reason why you get so much pushback is not because of your unpopular opinions but because you don't know how to debate properly.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#532

Post by Eisenstein »

woooooo wrote: post #528
Eisenstein wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but you don't get charity when you are asserting a point which is completely unfounded. Please find something which will back up your point besides 'they all happened at once' because that isn't even true. There is no correlation with 'capitalism' 'industry' and 'profit' with 'demise of slavery'. I beg you to look up what was happening in the Congo by Belgium when the automobile was being popularized. There hap…

Before industrialization, slavery and serfdom are common for thousands of years. After industrialization, it goes away within 1-200 years every place that industrialized. Probably because it's not economical anymore in the presence of industrial production. You're saying that this observation is so out of pocket that it doesn't deserve a charitable hearing?

Sure -- it makes sense in the same way that it makes sense industrialization got rid of eunuchs. A barbaric practice has died out in certain parts of the world because we live in the modern age.

To say that wouldn't have happened without industrialization, which wouldn't have happened without profit maximization, which wouldn't have happened without capitalism, is not logical. There is nothing inherent in capitalism which requires profit maximization at the expense of humans, it just requires exploitation of private property (note exploitation here means 'being used' not 'being used in a necessarily harmful manner). There is nothing inherent in industrialization which requires profit maximization, it just requires a cheap source of energy and labor and a market (note that this can be a planned market as in communism, or a market in which the demand is created only for war production and is fed by looting conquered territory, as the fascists did in WWII).

And there is nothing which precludes slavery existing because any of those other things exist. In fact, there were massive amounts of slaves who toiled under Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in the modern era, and we only don't have them now because they lost the war.

Sorry, your theory holds no water.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#533

Post by woooooo »

Eisenstein wrote: post #532
woooooo wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before industrialization, slavery and serfdom are common for thousands of years. After industrialization, it goes away within 1-200 years every place that industrialized. Probably because it's not economical anymore in the presence of industrial production. You're saying that this observation is so out of pocket that it doesn't deserve a charitable hearing?

Sure -- it makes sense in the same way that it makes sense industrialization got rid of eunuchs. A barbaric practice has died out in certain parts of the world because we live in the modern age. To say that wouldn't have happened without industrialization, which wouldn't have happened without profit maximization, which wouldn't have happened without capitalism, is not logical. There is nothing inherent in capitalism…

My "theory" is a straightforward recollection of the way things did in fact happen, on this planet and in this universe. Europeans started the industrial ball rolling with for profit companies. Sorry if you don't like it.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#534

Post by mistermann »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #498
mistermann wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>we could collectively ask ourselves what we want and do that >That is what democratic countries already do every 3-5 years Not sure what country you live in but in Canada they just give you a list of 4 or 5 names of people and you choose one, there's no asking of people what they'd like to do in the slightest. In fact, it's even worse: the folks campaign with certain sales pitches, but rarely follow up on their pro…

Is there a law in Canada that prohibits people from forming political parties opposed to capitalism, or other prohibitive hurdles (e.g., a large registration fee) that prevent most people from doing so in practice? If the answer is no, then the fact that no one currently on the ballot represents such a party is just evidence that Canadians, today, have almost no interest in these political approaches. >the folks camp…

> I agree this is a serious problem with existing democratic systems, but I don't know what to do about it.

I am curious why you can "know" all the other things you allege, yet not also "know" this? Is there something different about the proposition?

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#535

Post by Eisenstein »

woooooo wrote: post #533
Eisenstein wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure -- it makes sense in the same way that it makes sense industrialization got rid of eunuchs. A barbaric practice has died out in certain parts of the world because we live in the modern age. To say that wouldn't have happened without industrialization, which wouldn't have happened without profit maximization, which wouldn't have happened without capitalism, is not logical. There is nothing inherent in capitalism…

My "theory" is a straightforward recollection of the way things did in fact happen, on this planet and in this universe. Europeans started the industrial ball rolling with for profit companies. Sorry if you don't like it.

But just because things happened a certain way doesn't mean that it was the only way they could have happened. Are you a child?

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#536

Post by woooooo »

Eisenstein wrote: post #535
woooooo wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "theory" is a straightforward recollection of the way things did in fact happen, on this planet and in this universe. Europeans started the industrial ball rolling with for profit companies. Sorry if you don't like it.

But just because things happened a certain way doesn't mean that it was the only way they could have happened. Are you a child?

I never said that in this whole comment thread. Neither did I insult you personally.

Remember what I said about charity?

Frankly I'm disappointed, you should have called me racist for saying only Europeans can invent stuff.

Re: Nobody knows what's happening online anymore

#537

Post by Robotbeat »

ruszki wrote: post #495
Robotbeat wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what you mean. “Liberal” was in scare-quotes because that’s just the word that rightwing talk radio used to describe anyone on the left (or even center), and they said the word with disgust. Yes, I know libertarians call themselves “classical liberals” and the left uses “neoliberal” as a similar epithet for anyone more centrist than themselves, but that was the connotation of the word.

I meant that this happened in the past 10 years. “Liberal” wasn’t associated almost solely to “left”. It was generally accepted. This “classical liberal” euphemism, in its current meaning, is also kinda new, and almost everybody who uses this nowadays is not associated to liberalism at all.

Well in rightwing talk radio land, “liberal” has meant “left wing” since at least the 1990s, probably earlier.
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