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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#441

Post by alistairSH »

akouri wrote: post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

Why does it need to be app based? Can’t you use CC terminals like a normal gas station? Swipe or tap card like any other payment?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#442

Post by dzhiurgis »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #419
HenryBemis wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CC fees add up, but/and electricity is cheaper than gas, so net-net, you gain. Also considering the convenience that you have zero worries and you will be able to charge hassle-free in any charging stations, I'd pay an extra €1 to not have any headaches, apps, phone charged, and any/all hoops by any apps.

Things like little kiddy rides and vending machines are able to take contactless payments (in the UK). I don't really see how this can be a valid arguement.

It varies by country. In NZ we pay about $0.5 each time using contactless/apple pay, but 0 when using chip+pin.

IMO websites and/or open API's are way to go - allows third parties to build integrations, automations and superapps that enable all sort of benefits for users.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#443

Post by mikepurvis »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #278
afavour wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO that would be better solved by mandating tap and pay payment at EV charging spots. Integrating payments into the charging standard feels like a wild overcomplication by comparison.

Not only that, how do you even propose to do it? If you just send the payment info via the charging plug, now you have to worry about the payment info being stored in the car and potentially stolen if the car has any security vulnerabilities, including in the charging port. If you use some kind of tokenization or similar then you're inserting third party payment processors into the system and they'll be wanting a cut…

Particularly in a world where every new phone and smartwatch integrates tap-to-pay, seems like a no-brainer to just integrate at that point.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#444

Post by andrejk »

why_at wrote: post #224
akouri wrote: post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

This road trip video does a good job showing the papercuts and more significant issues that make a non-Tesla road trip painful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92w5doU68D8

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#445

Post by alibarber »

akouri wrote: post #360
why_at wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I agree having a different app for each station sucks, but I don't really understand how plug-and-charge would solve this. For anything that does support plug-and-charge, don't you still need to register the payment method somewhere in advance? Unless we have some universal payment processor which all the charging networks agree to use I will still need register through an app or something when I encounter a new…

Tap & Pay still requires you to fiddle with a station and slows you down. If you are plugging in at home (which is our target market), the fewer interactions needed the better. Imagine every time you get home you need to take your wallet out, tap the machine, wait for some 3rd party api to talk to the charger in the dimly lit basement, and then and only then you can leave. This is like 30 seconds of your day wasted.…

It takes something like half of a second for my Apple Pay Amex/Visa to let me through the barrier in the London Underground, and the complexity they have to deal with for fare calculations is quite something too.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#446

Post by Daneel_ »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #407
Animats wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tap-and-pay RF people need to get their act together. The average number of tries needed to get a good read is > 1. For Veriphone units, > 2. Please make it clear where, exactly, the near-field antenna is. Behind the screen? Behind the logo that looks like WiFi? Somewhere inside a separate hockey-puck device? And indicate when the reader is active, too. Light up something. One place I visit regularly had a POS sy…

For what it's worth, contactless is ubiquitous in the UK – the experience is almost always seamless. The only exception being the odd reader with the antenna in a stupid place (these have gotten less common over time) or when your bank decides to force a pin check.

It’s ubiquitous in Australia as well. I haven’t carried a wallet in almost 5 years. My credit card, driver’s license, and other important cards are all digital.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#447

Post by alibarber »

gambiting wrote: post #305
dzhiurgis wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now go abroad where charging app is not available in your country or requires local phone number to register, uses local language, or even wants local address or local payment method. Just give me website god damn it.

My story of charging in Germany one time a year ago: The charger requires an app, ok fine. Downloaded the app, had to setup the whole account with my address(UK address was allowed as my address), verify my email, verify my phone number(UK one was accepted), fine, done. Went to add my payment card - nope, the billing address has a pre-filled country field set to Germany, can't change it. It says ring this number in c…

Just trying to move to or be in another country and have the App store actually work properly for local apps (and the ones you want to keep from your original country) is a complete nightmare anyway.

It amazes me that for such a progressive and forward thinking company as Apple, that the very thought that their customers might actually move countries with their device and account seems to have been relegated to 'edge case'.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#448

Post by heyoni »

alistairSH wrote: post #441
akouri wrote: post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

Why does it need to be app based? Can’t you use CC terminals like a normal gas station? Swipe or tap card like any other payment?

Isn’t that what OP is saying? That it shouldn’t be app based and that the new ISO would resolve that by having the car communicate with the charging station? /edit I may have misread that

/edit2 the proposal uses certificate exchange between the car and the charging station. No app.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#449

Post by alibarber »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #420
gambiting wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My story of charging in Germany one time a year ago: The charger requires an app, ok fine. Downloaded the app, had to setup the whole account with my address(UK address was allowed as my address), verify my email, verify my phone number(UK one was accepted), fine, done. Went to add my payment card - nope, the billing address has a pre-filled country field set to Germany, can't change it. It says ring this number in c…

I'm in the process of deactivating my family Apple One account (they overseas) so I can change app store for few minutes and download all the local apps I need. I have to wait until end of month so my subscription actually expires, then make sure family sharing is disabled (which already screwed up location sharing). Oh and about 2.5TB of entire generation photos are up to be deleted by Apple if I screw up.

I have literally gotten visas for and worked in another country with greater ease than trying to get my Apple account to work well with local apps in my new country of residence while still allowing me to download and update apps from the first country.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#450

Post by p1mrx »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #415
p1mrx wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regular outlets are limited to 1.5 kW, so charging a car takes more than a day.

You assume the slowest outlet + full tank worth of driving. Possible, but not how most road trips happen.

Are you imagining a road trip where you ask random strangers to move their oven and run a cord out the window for several hours?
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