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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#371

Post by hedora »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #293
SoftTalker wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Regular petrol stations figured out pay at the pump decades ago. Why is this such a problem for EV charging?

Companies don't want want the hassle and expense of PCI compliance across their charger network. If it's just session auth shit going across the wire, they only need to worry about PCI compliance on the back end. By collecting lots of info about you, they get a lower processing rate because the transaction is lower risk vs a swipe/tap. They can save on transaction fees if they consolidate charging sessions; say you d…

> Charger Company A's charger is $1/minute and Charger Company B's charger is $1.10, and they're on the same block?

I’d go to the one that accepted my credit card and didn’t have an app.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#372

Post by HenryBemis »

masklinn wrote: post #337
MostlyStable wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like i said, credit card terminals seem the best way to fix this problem, Rather than done complicated plug-and-charge mechanism

Yeah, CC terminals (and NFC / tap if you want to be fancy) are working things which work. The only opposition I've heard is "uwu but charge costs are lower so CC fees add up".

CC fees add up, but/and electricity is cheaper than gas, so net-net, you gain. Also considering the convenience that you have zero worries and you will be able to charge hassle-free in any charging stations, I'd pay an extra €1 to not have any headaches, apps, phone charged, and any/all hoops by any apps.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#373

Post by namdnay »

akouri wrote: post #360
why_at wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I agree having a different app for each station sucks, but I don't really understand how plug-and-charge would solve this. For anything that does support plug-and-charge, don't you still need to register the payment method somewhere in advance? Unless we have some universal payment processor which all the charging networks agree to use I will still need register through an app or something when I encounter a new…

Tap & Pay still requires you to fiddle with a station and slows you down. If you are plugging in at home (which is our target market), the fewer interactions needed the better. Imagine every time you get home you need to take your wallet out, tap the machine, wait for some 3rd party api to talk to the charger in the dimly lit basement, and then and only then you can leave. This is like 30 seconds of your day wasted.…

Surely the interchange fee can be negotiated for volume? Or even mandated by law. When I tap my credit card to buy a 1$ bus ticket I doubt the interchange is keeping 30 cents?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#374

Post by tempestn »

conjecTech wrote: post #159
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

People also made the argument that the exclusivity of the Tesla supercharger network was a positive for Tesla. It's hard for both to be true. I think the reality is that uncertainty about charging away from home pushed a lot of people towards Tesla who might otherwise have considered a different make/model. With that gone, a moat vanished. That being said, competition in the US EV market is still weak. Maybe the adde…

I think the idea is that so far, and for now, the chargers have indeed helped them keep a significant lead in EV sales. Eventually though, many other companies will also be selling very good EVs, and if Tesla doesn't open their chargers, the rest of the industry will standardize on something else, and it will eventually get good (or at least good enough) out of necessity. So instead of being the only decent option, Teslas will be the odd one out that have their own weird charging setup. As long as that setup is good it might not be too much of a detriment for them, but eventually it would stop being a major benefit either. So, better to use their current position to become the dominant charging solution for all brands.

They were never going to corner the EV market long term. But they actually do have a chance of being the dominant charging supplier for every car on the road.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#375

Post by brnt »

jakewins wrote: post #237
why_at wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…

So, I haven't got the money for an electric car... One just can't use the payment card at a bog standard self service payment terminal? I had assumed that, but apparently no? You seriously visit random websites and enter CC details?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#376

Post by Animats »

afavour wrote: post #252
jakewins wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…

IMO that would be better solved by mandating tap and pay payment at EV charging spots. Integrating payments into the charging standard feels like a wild overcomplication by comparison.

The tap-and-pay RF people need to get their act together. The average number of tries needed to get a good read is > 1. For Veriphone units, > 2.

Please make it clear where, exactly, the near-field antenna is. Behind the screen? Behind the logo that looks like WiFi? Somewhere inside a separate hockey-puck device? And indicate when the reader is active, too. Light up something.

One place I visit regularly had a POS system which worked perfectly. They recently switched it out for a Clover unit with much lower read reliability and a worse customer-facing UI.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#377

Post by rockinghigh »

hnburnsy wrote: post #312
apexalpha wrote: post #135

I understand the ridicule that the EU gets sometimes, and especially so when trying to regulate stuff like AI where it seems the EU wants to regulate more than to create start ups etc... But this is one thing the EU just nailed the hammer into the wood immediatly, and rightly so. I can't even remember the time it was. Maybe 2013? 2014? They just set a standard and everyone, even Tesla, adopted it. Every single EV can…

Serious question is every EU charger outlet billed in a common way, like with cash, an app, debit/credit card, in car screen, with a payment screen, or preconfigured to bill seamlessly? Seems like the billing issues at non Tesla chargers in the US were a large part of the issues..

I can only talk for France. The payment is not standardized. Tesla is plug-and-pay like in the US but others are not. Every charging stations brand has its own app with the same issues as the US, where it may or may not work that day.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#378

Post by Acinyx »

pitaj wrote: post #334
jorvi wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase. I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)

So what? For high-power charging, DC is better anyways. For low-power charging, having extra phases is useless.

In europe the connections are a lot lower amperage, around here for example 35 ampere per phase. But having 3 phases is pretty normal and the standard in any new house, which means 3 phases can let you charge at 22kW with a few Ampere left, while with 1 phase you can only charge at 7 KW.

That does make it useful to charge it in a few hours in the afternoon, instead of having to wiat the night.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#379

Post by akouri »

hedora wrote: post #369
akouri wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tap & Pay with a ccard still requires you to fiddle with a station and slows you down. If you are plugging in at home (which is our target market), the fewer interactions needed the better. Imagine every time you get home you need to take your wallet out, tap the machine, wait for some 3rd party api to talk to the charger in the dimly lit basement, and then and only then you can leave. This is like 30 seconds of your…

This would be infinitely better than the current model, where you have to install a bullshit app, which doesn’t work over 20% of the time. I’d happily pay $0.30 per charge session to just use standard NFC or chip payments. Also, why in god’s name would I have authentication on my home charger?

> Also, why in god’s name would I have authentication on my home charger?

Not everyone in the US lives in a single family home

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#380

Post by HenryBemis »

enragedcacti wrote: post #239
why_at wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

For apartments I think it makes a lot of sense. Having to do a couple transactions every road trip is one thing, but having to complete a transaction just to top off every night the way a homeowner would sounds really annoying.

I am thinking of buildings where they got 100+ parking spots, and one can install a charging station for his/her/their car. THAT station needs some 'lock' (software or hardware). Otherwise what stops someone else to abuse my parking spot's 'e-pump', when I drive to work and the spot will be unoccupied for the next 10h?

So some hoop-jumping should also be required.

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