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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#281

Post by basiccalendar74 »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #64
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

by opening up supercharging network, Tesla becomes eligible for billions of federal money. that tips the scales towards open superchargers.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#282

Post by shkkmo »

ggreer wrote: post #166
bwat49 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fragmented infrastructure benefits no one. Imagine if you could only fill up your ICE vehicle at shell stations because of your vehicle's brand. Fragmentation of the charging infrastructure puts a hard limit on EV adoption, they will never replace ICE vehicles unless the infrastructure becomes as ubiquitous as gas stations.

It's hard to make direct analogies because unlike gas vehicles, EVs "refuel" at home. You wake up every day with a full tank of gas. Fast DC chargers are mostly for road trips. And while it's a good thing that everyone has adopted the same charging standard, branding is just as important. Gas at gas stations is fungible. EV chargers are most certainly not. Right now Tesla's charging network is the only option that is…

> unlike gas vehicles, EVs "refuel" at home. You wake up every day with a full tank of gas.

Only for the subset of the population that owns a home with off street parking. People in denser neighborhoods, appartments buildings or who rent their property will be looking to top off while running errands or at work.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#283

Post by superjan »

l72 wrote: post #250

While this sounds good, why are we so focused on charging stations? It seems to me, it would make much more sense to have a series of batteries that can quickly be removed, and have battery exchanges. Then, if you need a charge, you pull over to a battery exchange, swap out batteries in a few seconds, and go on your way. I have seen this in China with electric scooters, and it seems like it could scale well for cars…

why is this downvoted? It is a legitimate question. You can comment if you have a counterargument.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#284

Post by quickthrowman »

SoftTalker wrote: post #265
why_at wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Yep. Regular petrol stations figured out pay at the pump decades ago. Why is this such a problem for EV charging?

That’s a easyn one. The charger manufacturers (ChargePoint, etc) want to rake a percentage of the charging revenue for themselves, so they force you to route payment processing through them.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#285

Post by p1mrx »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #259
paul7986 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh just maybe (yikes) ..I'm on the fence about buying an EV as gas car provides me the best experience for my needs. I drive a Ton and in remote areas too

Do those places have no power sockets?

Regular outlets are limited to 1.5 kW, so charging a car takes more than a day.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#286

Post by afavour »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #278
afavour wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO that would be better solved by mandating tap and pay payment at EV charging spots. Integrating payments into the charging standard feels like a wild overcomplication by comparison.

Not only that, how do you even propose to do it? If you just send the payment info via the charging plug, now you have to worry about the payment info being stored in the car and potentially stolen if the car has any security vulnerabilities, including in the charging port. If you use some kind of tokenization or similar then you're inserting third party payment processors into the system and they'll be wanting a cut…

[flagged]

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#287

Post by sschueller »

ggreer wrote: post #176
apexalpha wrote: post #135

I understand the ridicule that the EU gets sometimes, and especially so when trying to regulate stuff like AI where it seems the EU wants to regulate more than to create start ups etc... But this is one thing the EU just nailed the hammer into the wood immediatly, and rightly so. I can't even remember the time it was. Maybe 2013? 2014? They just set a standard and everyone, even Tesla, adopted it. Every single EV can…

CCS is a worse standard than NACS. The connector is huge. Also CCS locks the cable on both sides (charger and car), so a bad charger or cable can strand your car. NACS locks only on the car side.

The CCS2 does not have the issues of the CCS1 but is as big that is the only downside. But if you want to fit 3 phase AC charging you need a big plug.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#288

Post by hehhehaha »

why_at wrote: post #224
akouri wrote: post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

I think the credit card thing would require the chargers to be monitored in a way.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#289

Post by intrasight »

squarefoot wrote: post #158
intrasight wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they are not charging a license fee for the connector.

Probably having the brand Tesla exposed to other cars drivers will be enough PR.

How is the brand exposed? Do the plugs have to have the Tesla name or logo on them?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#290

Post by greenthrow »

jakewins wrote: post #237
why_at wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…

GP is talking about L2 charging for multi family homes. Not DCFC.

But I agree, DCFC need to all accept credit cards like gas pumps. Fortunately NEVI funding requires it.

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