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Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

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Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#331

Post by broscillator »

ath3nd wrote: post #87
cauch wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that if you write down a list of inconveniencing things, this cannot be anywhere but at the bottom. The fact that some person will cry and shout that it is very very inconvenient seems to just confirm this person is acting like a toddler. But in fact you are right, "mildly inconvenient" may not be the best way to put it, it could have been "because otherwise you are as inconvenienced as they are if th…

[flagged]

Emotions are running high in this comment.

I think it doesn't really have much to do with what anyone wants. It's funny that I am inclined to think OP would be annoying, but this comment almost is doing the opposite of what you intended and swaying me the opposite way. Knowledge should be shared, and not under a list of very capricious conditions.

But, I get it, that's how you work and we've all got our things. I've never worked at an office, and I'm just realizing that all the discussions here could be solved by simply having a guy like OP paired with a guy who enjoys sharing their knowledge and unblocking these problems ASAP. A people person, which I get coders tend not to be. A guy whose flow is that, not just being an island out of a krazam sketch.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#332

Post by cgeier »

d3w4s9 wrote: post #291
definitelyauser wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often run into the "just wear headphones" argument and never been a fan of it. Do you code with noise cancellation in a sort of sensory deprivation mode? Or do you listen to music? Listening to music while coding severely reduces my concentration, and I find it in no way to be a substitute for silence.

Sorry that's just you. As an amateur musician myself, music helps me concentrate. Actually, if I have been writing code for a while without music, I would notice that "something is missing" and turn on my music. I know a number of colleagues who use their headphones all the time as well.

It's not "just" him. Just (yes, just) because you know some people who wear their headphones all day, doesn't make it the standard.

Lots of people (including me) don't like to wear headphones all day.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#333

Post by bluGill »

Zelphyr wrote: post #325
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

I worked for a guy (who is actually a great guy) who, while excitedly showing me the floor plan for the proposed open plan for our team, exclaimed, "I want to create a vibrant, energetic atmosphere." and asked me what I thought. All I could think was, "What you see as vibrant is really your employees shooting the shit and not getting any actual work done." He went with the plan and I found myself staying until 7pm an…

> "What you see as vibrant is really your employees shooting the shit and not getting any actual work done."

That is better than getting work on the wrong thing done. People who sit in their office and never interact with others tend to work on projects the company thought was canceled months ago.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#335

Post by pseudalopex »

DoughnutHole wrote: post #285
nitely wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk who wins, but I'd assume extroverts need a quiet environment to be able to focus as much as anyone else.

Blaming extroverts/introverts is a red herring - it’s down to the nature of the work. Whether they’re introverts or extroverts a programmer’s job tends to require a lot of solo focus. There’s collaborative aspects of course but it always requires windows of deep work that are deeply frustrated by distraction, introvert or not. Many other areas of work (including much work in upper management) don’t require that focus…

Most programmers understand the aspects of upper management work you described in my experience. And most upper managers choose to work in separate offices.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#336

Post by RandomLensman »

esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

You have pretty noisy and messy environments where technically challenging programming and other taxing work happens successfully (e.g., some trading floor). How much do think the whole issue is self selection into preferred work environments?

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#337

Post by [deleted] »

The_Colonel wrote: post #307
throw0101c wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open plan might work great for some types of work […] I'm curious to know: why types are, or people consider to be, good for open plan? Generally, office type jobs tends to be one where people need to use their brains to concentrate on something, and open plans tend to be able to create / not block distractions, they would be antithetical to being able to concentrate.

Open plan is good for collaboration/communication heavy types of jobs. In this kind of jobs, disruptions is a way to propagate "just in time" information through the organization. You can still eliminate disruptions in such setting, and it superficially leads to a high "productivity" in terms of LOC produced, but you act on outdated/misleading information (or you deny that information to others), which often leads to…

[deleted]

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#338

Post by globular-toast »

BossingAround wrote: post #38
azangru wrote: post #35

Judging by the comments here, nobody is doing pair programming / mob programming?

Nobody is doing pair programming / mob programming. At best, some people are talking that it might be interesting to do.

There are people who dream that programming looks like "team working programming" stock images[0]. I've no idea why they want this to be true but it wouldn't be the first time people have tried to force others into their bizarre dreams.

[0] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=team+working+programming&iar=image...

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#339

Post by mariusor »

em-bee wrote: post #319
mariusor wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what exactly you're reading in my words, but I don't really understand why you think it's my "effing job" to provide training for inexperienced developers. My contract stipulates no such thing, and despite what you seem to assume, I have been in fact hired to find solutions, and write code. It's a little disconcerting to see someone make such self assured inferences about me, based on a single comment.

when i hire someone, their job is to do whatever it takes that is in their capacity to move the project forward. if it takes a larger team, then getting new team members up to speed is part of that. and if that new team member is unfamiliar with the frameworks the team is using then training them on that is part of the job too.

Are you just telling me that you don't want to do your job properly as a hiring manager, which in my opinion would be to get the best people for the job, and that you prefer to pass the buck to your team to train them?

I mean, sure, that's fine if this is stipulated from the start, but if you expect someone to solve leet code, do programming homework, and then when they get hired they have to also navigate your extra requirements and teach people the basics of their job (because probably you couldn't be bothered to pay enough) then in my opinion you're taking advantage of these people pure and simple.

And to top it off, I know managers sometimes fools themselves that the team is invested in the "project moving forward", but that's rarely the case. As an individual I probably don't give a damn about the project, unless we're solving one the big issues of the world. The bullshit CRUD application you work on, or the latest cryptocurrency is just a means to get a paycheck for most of the people, and if you expect anyone to fake enthusiasm for it you're just deluded.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#340

Post by JohnFen »

IKantRead wrote: post #316
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

Recent experience at a fairly young startup has shown me that open office culture has also started to breed a very different type of programmer. People will often be pairing nearly all day long, any claim that you need a moment to focus and think about a problem is met with perplexity, every idea should be shipped to prod asap, while tests exist the idea of performing basic QA/manual testing on your own work is only…

That's a scary depiction of the scene. I haven't experienced things that extreme, but close enough that I don't doubt you.

It might even be a significant part of why software quality isn't where it should be these days.

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