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US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

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Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#181

Post by jeffbee »

4ggr0 wrote: post #176
FredPret wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah mate, you’ve got to be realistic. No human will ever accept a downward adjustment. Plus, meeting in the middle is even less sustainable than the current situation. The options are: - Dramatically less (like prehistoric levels) - Dramatically more (star trek)

What about Solarpunk[0]? That could almost be the middle between Pre-Historic and Star Trek. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solarpunk

Every happy person depicted in solarpunk artwork is the survivor of a mass casualty event and one of the few lucky people who aren't enslaved in manual labor colonies. That's the only way the solarpunk economy makes any sense.

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#182

Post by 4ggr0 »

jeffbee wrote: post #181
4ggr0 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Solarpunk[0]? That could almost be the middle between Pre-Historic and Star Trek. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solarpunk

Every happy person depicted in solarpunk artwork is the survivor of a mass casualty event and one of the few lucky people who aren't enslaved in manual labor colonies. That's the only way the solarpunk economy makes any sense.

> Every happy person depicted in solarpunk artwork is the survivor of a mass casualty event

Maybe ecological collapse after decades of growing the economy. After all, shareholder are worth more than humans :)

> one of the few lucky people who aren't enslaved in manual labor

Actually, we got quite a few of them, right now.

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#183

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

pjmlp wrote: post #108

I guess steel isn't considered a critical asset for US industry to be in foreign hands.

My theory is they want to use Japan do R&D to green-wash their steel industry and to absorb all of the related costs, they'll then get it back with bunch of new IPs as a result, Japan is.. hum.. kind

https://www.wsj.com/articles/green-steel-is-coming-europe-is...

China also doing its moves to lead

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#184

Post by jeffbee »

4ggr0 wrote: post #182
jeffbee wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every happy person depicted in solarpunk artwork is the survivor of a mass casualty event and one of the few lucky people who aren't enslaved in manual labor colonies. That's the only way the solarpunk economy makes any sense.

> Every happy person depicted in solarpunk artwork is the survivor of a mass casualty event Maybe ecological collapse after decades of growing the economy. After all, shareholder are worth more than humans :) > one of the few lucky people who aren't enslaved in manual labor Actually, we got quite a few of them, right now.

True. I will give the Solarpunk people that much. Like Marx they have identified a real problem with society. Like Marx their proposed solution isn't going to work. In some respects it reminds me of this obscure, old web comic, in which the protagonists embark on their glorious future but forget to bring their inexhaustible labor robots.

https://www.angryflower.com/348.html

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#185

Post by 4ggr0 »

xp84 wrote: post #177
4ggr0 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do we say to poor people? Sorry your life sucks, but the economy is big enough now? we talk to rich people and tell them, "Sorry, but we've f*cked poor people long enough now, time to adjust downwards and meet in the middle."

The Plan: Convince Western countries, which are mostly some form of republic or a parliamentary system emulating one, to lower their citizens' living standards, in order to theoretically set a better example of resource usage for developing countries, who will 100% ignore this supposed role-modeling anyway because they actually want the best possible living standards, like most people do, and they have a point that e…

look, i'm one guy on the internet, i will not be able to provide a global solution. but i think the current situation is not sustainable in the slightest. i try to act how i'd like people to act. i vote for or support things which matter to me.

i can't change what China does, i can't really change what my country does. i can barely influence what my family and friends do.

but i refuse to believe that "just grow the economy and gather more resources" is a viable path.

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#186

Post by 4ggr0 »

jeffbee wrote: post #184
4ggr0 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every happy person depicted in solarpunk artwork is the survivor of a mass casualty event Maybe ecological collapse after decades of growing the economy. After all, shareholder are worth more than humans :) > one of the few lucky people who aren't enslaved in manual labor Actually, we got quite a few of them, right now.

True. I will give the Solarpunk people that much. Like Marx they have identified a real problem with society. Like Marx their proposed solution isn't going to work. In some respects it reminds me of this obscure, old web comic, in which the protagonists embark on their glorious future but forget to bring their inexhaustible labor robots. https://www.angryflower.com/348.html

> Like Marx they have identified a real problem with society

Ah, maybe that's why I like Solarpunk so much...

> In some respects it reminds me of this obscure, old web comic

which makes fun of the bourgeoisie who notice that they're not worth a lot without the proletariat ;)

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#187

Post by riversflow »

hef19898 wrote: post #91
pandemicsyn wrote: post #42

This will be interesting. I wonder what will happen to Dr Larrin Thomas ( https://knifesteelnerds.com/about-me/ ) he's been able to bring some new knife steels to market while working for US Steel by day. Wonder if Nippon allows side gigs.

I do have a bar of 40-layered high-carbon steel from Nippon Steel and another one of white-paper-and-low-carbon-steel with a iron (!) core from Hitachi in the basement waiting to be forged into swords. So, going from that, I think the Japanese (!) management should be fine, the local US management might different so. Thanks for the link, some great resources on that site!

If you are new to knifesteelnerds, but not steel in general, and like blades, don’t just check out the site, make a beeline to read about Magnacut. Super cool and exciting.

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#188

Post by reducesuffering »

lumost wrote: post #175
Spooky23 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$200/month probably included their health plan.

It did not, health plan was covered by a separate charge through the university or through student's own continued coverage from parents.

It does not surprise me how related the US Unions and Mafia were. Seems they learned some lessons on protection rackets.

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#189

Post by fomine3 »

verdverm wrote: post #105
FredPret wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan supplied sub-par metal for decades and lied about it. Aluminum, copper and steel. Something to think about next time you get anywhere near a car, train, airplane, skyscraper, or bridge. https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/16/news/companies/kobe-steel-s...

I hoped someone would have additional data to add, thanks! Is a scandal at one company evidence for the entire industry in a country? Is there similar information about other Japanese companies? What about the industry at large? The prevailing sentiment is that Chinese steel has similar issues.

NS faked too https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14617459

Re: US Steel, once the largest corporation, agrees to sell to Nippon Steel

#190

Post by bsder »

ryzvonusef wrote: post #3
ryzvonusef wrote: post #2

> US Steel has agreed to be bought by Nippon Steel, Japan’s largest steelmaker, in a $14.1 billion deal. > Earlier this summer the United Steelworkers union vowed to only support a proposed offer by another unionized American steel company, Cleveland Cliffs, to buy US Steel, in a cash and stock deal then valued at $32.53 a share, or 40% less than Nippon’s all cash offer. The US Steel board rejected that offer and sta…

on why it failed: > US Steel and other steelmakers eventually followed those foreign competitors to upgrade factories and equipment, but they still largely used the older methods to make steel by melting raw materials such as iron ore in giant blast furnaces. > Those “integrated” steelmakers soon lagged behind so-called “mini-mills,” nonunion competitors that use more efficient electric arc furnaces to turn old steel…

> So the question is... did unions prevent a path to upgradation to new tech?

Not really? The difference is referred to as "primary" vs "secondary" steelmaking.

The US pumped out enormous quantities of steel from 1910-1980ish and then usage decreased as better computer models as well as plastics allowed a lot more efficient use of the material. This meant that a bunch of used steel was available and nobody could really consume steel fast anymore.

Consequently, "secondary" small mills recycling used steel were WAY more profitable than "primary" large mills making it from ore. This devastated the US steel industry which was mostly "primary" (some of that has changed).

Then ... China ... started consuming vast quantities of steel for development. At some point, China bought up and used most of the used steel that was available.

So ... today ... "secondary" steel is rising because the cheap used steel isn't laying around anymore. "Primary" steel is making a comeback as you need to produce original feedstock or the "secondary" producers have nothing to work with.

The correct answer to all this is: it's a balance. You need some primary steelmaking or you simply run out of feedstock. You need some secondary steelmaking to tweak the type of steel and provide smaller, specialty runs.

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