Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling • Hacker News Board

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#311

Post by gigaflop » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:04 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #92

solardev wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you buy singles? (Not trying to be snarky. Just started playing a few months ago and that seems to be the best way to make decks without gambling. What's the point of buying packs?)

> What's the point of buying packs? Draft is probably the best MtG style of playing. A lot of MtG turns into pay-to-win, since the best cards of the meta inevitably cost more. Drafting on the other hand, ensures that everyone has zero-cards upon the start of the draft and have to make due with the booster-cards that come in the draft. In many ways, drafting is cheaper. You don't have to worry about making the best de…

I prefer a rich man's draft: Buy a box for myself, and see what I can cobble together.

- A magpie, with approx $300 of MtG on my desk rn

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#312

Post by axus » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:10 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #304

david2ndaccount wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regret to inform you that was released in 2014, almost a decade ago.

That's longer ago than I thought, but still just within the decade, so it counts. I admit it's a depressing performance by WotC.

Only a true D&D player would rules-lawyer the decade definition like that.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#313

Post by gigaflop » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:13 PM UTC

THENATHE wrote: post #48

I really miss 2016 MtG. I remember when full art lands and full art promos were RARE and with money for no reason other than their collectability. I really liked when cards were rare because of the fact that they were good and uncommon and maybe because they were the same as the regular card but foil, not because they were arbitrarily a different type of shiny, or like when that one card from Kamigawa had a different…

I copped this version of the Hidetsugu you're thinking of for $30 at my LGS a few weeks ago: https://scryfall.com/card/neo/432/hidetsugu-devouring-chaos

Prices of swaggy stuff is always irrational until the smallest attention spans have moved on.

I assume you know about Collector Packs, those are my favorites for splashing a chunk of money on a set. If I can afford to preorder a box, or pick one up on some random sale, they have the highest swag tier.

The only card I've sold in the past several years has been a copy of Parallel Lives. It got me enough store credit to cop a Chatterfang, and some other goodies to build a first Commander deck after not touching my cards in years. I had 4 or 5 copies, so it was easy to part with. I also gave one copy away to a friend who had just bought some sort of 'Hobbits and food tokens' precon deck.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#314

Post by gigaflop » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #72

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #64

Prepare for the enshittification and bedbathandbeyonding of Magic the gathering. If I had to make a guess as to why, given the fact that the people they laid off were all senior leaders and the numbers are good, it would be preparing for a pump and dump. if you want to be able to pump and dump a really strong brand then you need to be able to have leaders who don’t mind burning the brands equity in order to make mone…

> Prepare for the enshittification and bedbathandbeyonding of Magic the gathering. That happened during the original design of the game. M:tG was one of the first products to sell you a pig in a poke. That was the concept! I've seen people say that it would be nice to regulate loot boxes in video games, but they can't figure out how to do it without banning Magic's business model. I never understood why that would be…

With MtG, I can go online and see what my odds are for just about any kind of packs I get: https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/collecting-ravnica...

Not sure if they were always this forthcoming about the 'slotting', but I do appreciate it.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#315

Post by CivBase » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

solardev wrote: post #84

This is the same Hasbro that tried to retroactively close off the D&D Open Game License (and thus the third party ecosystem). It was a massive betrayal that caused a ton of pushback: https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/jan/12/dungeons-and-d... They also sell so many overpriced kits with not much going on in them (just a few pieces of paper, not enough dice, sub par instructions ). Or really expensive character toy…

For those of you who are sick of Hasbro/WotC's shinanigans, give Pathfinder a shot. Its setting and rules should be very familiar for anyone used to DnD, but I've found the small changes they made to combat and progression really make the game much more interesting and rewarding.

I've found Paizo's pricing to be much more reasonable than WotC and they work well with open source projects. I've been using the open source system for Pathfinder on FoundryVTT with Paizo's official content packs and it's amazing. My experiences with DnD in Roll20 and AboveVTT don't even come close.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#316

Post by agentultra » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

freilanzer wrote: post #260

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are still going to pay money for D&D then they truly do not care about the hobby. I must admit before the OGL fiasco I didn't see much of the allure of other systems, but that really pushed me away and the world of TTRPGs is so much brighter and better than crappy D&D. I still play in one D&D campaign, but it was started before the fiasco, but I have already decided that at least I won't be running another…

As someone thinking about getting into Pen and Paper games, I'm surprised to read all this. What are the alternatives?

ttrpg nerd bait, my favourites:

Forbidden Lands: This is a whole old-school D&D exploration-based game. It's a big, huge setting with a lot of content to explore. Characters are simple to make, the rules are light, and it's easy to run with many groups or players dropping in-and-out without ruining the continuity of any stories.

Microlite20/Microlite70: These are super-small, cut-down, and free revisions of the old-school D&D style games. The rules fit in a couple of pages. It's all compatible with the enormous library of OSR content out there. And it's straight-forward to hack into your own setting, add your own house rules, etc.

Torchbearer: If you like the idea of down-on-their-luck mercenaries out on the edges of civilization robbing ancient tombs and hunting down relics for rich patrons in order to make a buck and scrape by; this game is great. It has the classic D&D feel of regular people picking up a sword and heading into the wilderness with plenty of story-telling hooks. Gameplay is much more structured than in Microlite* games but it's also very easy to prep for as a DM.

Burning Wheel This is the grand-pappy of Torchbearer (and other games made by the same publisher like Mouse Guard). It's a crunchier system than most as it has rule systems for debates, all kinds of combat, etc. However this game is more of a world-building toolkit kind of RPG where you are encouraged to build your game world and story at the table and pick which parts of the rules will be relevant to your game. Want a game with high political intrigue in a low-tech society with no magic but faith? You can use the rules for debating (called, Duel of Wits), skip on all the magic and creatures and limit characters to humans and faith-based paths. Want a high-magic setting with monsters lurking around every corner? You can build that too.

It's a bonus that the books are handsome and well made.

Root/Ironsworn/Powered by the Apocalypse: These are all games that use the same basic mechanics. More narrative-driven and light on the rules/mechanics. Generally pretty cheap to acquire and teach.

Wraith: The Oblivion 20th: My favourite World of Darkness setting. Very much not D&D... but still a TTRPG. I tend to play Vampire more because it's more popular. However this one is an overlooked gem of a game and setting. It's all about playing as ghosts and the afterlife. However what sets it apart from the rest of the World of Darkness setting is that it's possible to transcend from the world and have a good ending. This system, I find, is pretty rules-light and easy to get into... although it's the content of the game that's overwhelming! There are a lot of options for building characters and it will take a long time before you get a grips on all the different options. However stories here tend to be dark, dramatic, sometimes hilarious... it's worth making sure you're playing with the right group that can handle the subject matter and support one another playing through it.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#317

Post by alphager » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #142

Supermancho wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enshittification already happened. The most recent incorporation of other IPs, like the upcoming Dr Who, is a series of last gasps. While sales have followed along the aging income growth of existing players, the inverse pressure of exiting players is past sustainable levels. Other forms of gamba have eroded the MTG gamba allure. Re: Youtube - Tolarian Community College - which is very good at capturing the state…

What is inherently wrong with co-branded product? Do you have any data to back up "exiting players"? I don't think we really have a good read on that. The MagicCons I've been to have been increasingly packed with people.

The part of the player base that cares deeply about the lore of MtG was skeptical of having My little Pony, Warhammer 40k, Lord of the Rings, Fallout and Street Fighter cards (all real btw!).

The other thing is that there's a certain product-fatigue and format fatigue in the community. There are so many releases each year that it's increasingly impossible to give the monetary and time commitment to follow 100% of MtG. It was never a cheap hobby, but the price increases and the proliferation of products really is noticeable.

The old-school entrenched playerbase is also noticing that the formats they grew up with are becoming increasingly irrelevant. In-person standard-events in local stores are increasingly harder to find (and even if an event is planned it often fails because not enough people show up). The competitive tournament scene is almost completely dead. The big money-maker for wizards is Commander and you are thus seeing more and more cards aimed at that format, even in standard-sets.

In short: the extended universe is not aimed at the old-school base and can be seen as an unnecessary money-grab at best or as an "they killed my preferred format for this?!" outrage condensation point.

You are seeing the same thing in the MCU: it's hard to follow /all/ movies and TV shows and even worse: some of the shows are not aiming at the classically young singe male audience and thus shows aimed at female teenagers are produced. Some part of the nerd community sees that as a direct attack on their identity.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#318

Post by masklinn » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:35 PM UTC

gpderetta wrote: post #281

masklinn wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in commander casual it seems pretty well accepted. And with how extensive some alters are, their proxy nature may not be distinguishable (although I don’t think you should mislead people, just be upfront and if you don’t mind bring fallback decks).

It might actually be more accepted in competitive EDH (and pretty much required) as most people can't be expected mortgage their homes to buy a deck full of expensive reserve list cards[1] :D. It helps that cEDH is not a sanctioned format. [1] cEDH is sometimes called singleton multiplayer vintage for a reason.

I would not be shocked, but I know nothing about cEDH while I have at least some acquaintance with EDH.

Also talking about singleton vintage is a bit funny when vintage is the only format with a restricted list (and thus in a way the original format with singleton restriction).

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#319

Post by TheCoelacanth » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

axus wrote: post #312

mcv wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's longer ago than I thought, but still just within the decade, so it counts. I admit it's a depressing performance by WotC.

Only a true D&D player would rules-lawyer the decade definition like that.

Sounds like a rollplayer, not a roleplayer.

Re: Hasbro laying off Wizards of the Coast staff is baffling

#320

Post by klodolph » Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 3:58 PM UTC

zztop44 wrote: post #306

drxzcl wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But more importantly, there are lots of creators making excellent stuff for systems that are not compatible with their bullshit player option supplements. No Steve, you cannot be extra-planar half-staplerkin half-mongoose demi-lich paladin/sorcerer with a lemming patron. I don't care what Tasha's Bulging Cupboard of Crap or Volo's Yard-sale of Absolutely Everything has to say about it.

This was a problem in 3 and 3.5 era too and was only exacerbated by the rise of forums and wikis. I don’t think it’s possible to release one-size-fits-all-the-crap-that’s-out-there campaigns that are going to be actually interesting. At some point the DMs job is to make decisions about what fits and what doesn’t, and to help cultivate a culture of collaborative storytelling.

Yes, 100%. I DMed during the 3 and 3.5 era, and the “bullshit player option supplements” were a major problem. Players want to ask for the most out of pocket stuff they pick up from the splatbooks. It was beyond difficult to build a coherent party of players when everyone was using radically different concepts to build their characters. Game balance went out the window. 3 and 3.5 had terrible game balance to begin with, but once you bring in books like Exalted Deeds, it was even worse.

4E fixed a ton of problems here. Character classes were much more balanced and there were not many supplements with new classes and options—partly because it takes a ton of effort to make a new 4E class.