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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#441

Post by mikrl »

dghughes wrote: post #433
nicbou wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

I'm in Canada but English. Years ago a French co-worker from New Brunswick went to northern France on vacation. He's Acadian French for those non-Canadian or non-French reading this that's different than Quebec, how? I'm not sure. But the guy told me the people the people there were amazed by his accent. Apparently it wasn't like Quebec accent it was more old French but I guess not the slang of Quebec French? Not sur…

Acadians were an earlier emigrant wave from France, so their French sounds like that from the 18th century plus developments.

The Québécois were about 100 years later, so their French is like the 19th century plus developments.

African French dates from the colonial period, so it sounds more like early 20th century French plus developments.

That’s how I understand it to be.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#442

Post by yxhuvud »

pyeri wrote: post #405
n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

Indian English has to be one of the easiest accent/dialect to understand. The way we speak isn't much different than how a Spanish, French or Italian would speak English, a bit slowly and trying to emphasize each consonant as we want to get it right.

No, Indian English is absolutely horrible to understand (for me, Swedish). It just sounds all wrong and you use strange word selections pretty often.

The thing about accents is that they are easy to understand for people coming from languages with the same way or similar of speaking, ie french have an easier time understanding English spoken by a french than if it is spoken by an Indian. What I'm saying is not that one way or the other is superior, but that it is different for different people with different language baggages.

This can be used to make yourself easier to understand - change your accent to match the person you are talking with.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#443

Post by JodieBenitez »

nicbou wrote: post #326
n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

> They just can't get over the accent

French here, with an anecdote:

More than 20 years ago I visited Montréal. It was difficult to participate in discussions with french-speaking people because I could understand some participants very well and others not at all, just because there are different degrees of accent. In constrast, it was easy to understand any english-speaking person.

> There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex.

Nope, we also mock our own accents. There are many of them across our country. It's just for fun, we still like you.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#444

Post by master-lincoln »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #431
master-lincoln wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't know what you are talking about. Intersectionality is a framework where it is believed that for systemic issues it makes sense to not look at individual axis of oppression/empowerment (race, gender, ...), but to look for the combined individual effect (or something like that, apparently there is no consensus on the details) Using "inclusive language" means that you use words to address the target au…

> I think you don't know what you are talking about. I think I'm simply not buying into that evil ideology. I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've seen the consequences of bolshevism already. "intersectionality" is no different, same old marxist garbage.

You do not seem to want to engage in a fair discussion where arguments are exchanged. This debate culture will not help in convincing others about your view. Sorry you are so bitter about this...

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#445

Post by netbioserror »

nervousvarun wrote: post #440
tkiolp4 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non native English speaker, the hardest to understand are people from England. The easiest to understand are people from the NL. The most comfortable to work with: germans, italians, spaniards… since they make the same grammar mistakes I make (so we all understand our mistakes)

American here...always thought the NL/Dutch accent was weirdly the most American-like accent? Which I assume is universally fairly easy to understand because of all the media content? I've been around Dutch natives before where it took surprisingly long before realizing they weren't from the US. In my opinion the Scottish accent is the most difficult accent to understand. "Introduced" the Scottish accent via Youtube…

I'm American and concur with this. Aside from some slightly accented tweaks here and there, the Dutch speak a remarkably clear and rhotic English that feels quite comfortable to listen to.

It's odd because Dutch itself, being a Germanic language, has a lot of pronunciation commonality with the most conservative of all English accents, Scottish. You can hear it in this video, where a sentence composed of common Germanic words is spoken in every Germanic language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryVG5LHRMJ4

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#447

Post by devilbunny »

nervousvarun wrote: post #440
tkiolp4 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non native English speaker, the hardest to understand are people from England. The easiest to understand are people from the NL. The most comfortable to work with: germans, italians, spaniards… since they make the same grammar mistakes I make (so we all understand our mistakes)

American here...always thought the NL/Dutch accent was weirdly the most American-like accent? Which I assume is universally fairly easy to understand because of all the media content? I've been around Dutch natives before where it took surprisingly long before realizing they weren't from the US. In my opinion the Scottish accent is the most difficult accent to understand. "Introduced" the Scottish accent via Youtube…

The Dutch accent is closest to the American; if you didn't know English or Dutch, you would be hard pressed to tell the two apart. They sound a lot alike from a distance.

If it weren't for Trainspotting, which I adore, I'd be utterly useless at understanding Scots accents. As it is, I can just barely manage.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#448

Post by throw_m239339 »

master-lincoln wrote: post #444
throw_m239339 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you don't know what you are talking about. I think I'm simply not buying into that evil ideology. I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've seen the consequences of bolshevism already. "intersectionality" is no different, same old marxist garbage.

You do not seem to want to engage in a fair discussion where arguments are exchanged. This debate culture will not help in convincing others about your view. Sorry you are so bitter about this...

> You do not seem to want to engage in a fair discussion where arguments are exchanged. This debate culture will not help in convincing others about your view. Sorry you are so bitter about this...

You want a debate about the 'virtues' of communism? LOL...

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#449

Post by JodieBenitez »

kergonath wrote: post #264
Swizec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in US…

> That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in USA. The French (Europe in general) just don’t care that much about customer UX. You either do it their way or you can leave. I hate service in American restaurants. I don’t want to be babysit and have someone always behind me. I can fill my glass myself just fine, and I am able to call if I need something. I just want to be left alone to enjoy the meal an…

The tipping culture sure made some nights unpleasant when I traveled.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#450

Post by rprospero »

UncleSlacky wrote: post #384
eloisant wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I went to US, I was pretty confident in my English but natives didn't understand me. I could repeat the same, grammatically correct sentence 3 times and they still wouldn't get it. Then I realized that in English (especially American English) you have to accentuate the right syllabus or they won't understand you. Say you're going to "mounTAIN view" instead of "MOUNtain view" and they have no idea what…

Reminds me of foreigners asking for "water" in the US at restaurants, having to pronouce it "wadder" in order to be understood.

I remember a grad student who went through a similar incident. While I appreciated his frustration, I also understand the anxiety of the poor server trying to remember how to mix a Woahtuh before my colleague decided to enunciate the coda.
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