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Where Johnny Cash came from

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Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#61

Post by foobarian »

itronitron wrote: post #33
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom grew up in Appalachia, in the same time as Johnny Cash, dirt farmers in a "holler". No indoor electric, plumbing, or phone. Wood stove cooking and heat. A spring house for water. Baths every Saturday night. Their livelihood was completely dependant on growing food and lumber. I find it unimaginable. Technically I know how it worked, but it's completely alien. In one generation.

My father had a similar childhood. Grew up in a 3 bedroom cabin that his father built, shared a bedroom with his 3 brothers, and spent a lot of his childhood running around the woods with a rifle and trapping animals to sell furs. Despite having a very successful career, he refers to this time in his life as 'when we were wealthy'.

You're not kidding. Not even a billionaire's kids today could run around the woods with rifles and do the same.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#62

Post by jmspring »

trust_bt_verify wrote: post #59
jmspring wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

Can you show that this behavior did not exist in previous generations? I saw plenty of that with gen-x working its way through the lower rungs of the workforce.

I don't disagree Gen-X has had part of that, as one myself. I think it's a matter of scale.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#63

Post by jeltz »

jmspring wrote: post #57
acjohnson55 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that the generations who worked through childhood are any better on average. There are folks who turned that into habits that unlocked productivity and happiness in life. There are others who just got exploited. To me, what's important is building the intuition for the connection between practice and achievement, which is a subtly different thing. It's not hard work for…

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

No, I do not. No more or less than older generations. I feel this comment is just ageism.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#64

Post by tshirthoodie »

jzb wrote: post #32
tshirthoodie wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ongoing legacy of “I will do this no matter what” and being exploited If you're willing to do it no matter what, you're begging to be exploited. That's the entire history of the labor movement in a sentence.

Vulnerable. Not begging, vulnerable. This is prime blaming the victim. People who have an innate drive to make music or art are vulnerable to be exploited, but place the blame where it belongs: on those who would exploit them. Most humans enjoy music and art. We want it to exist. It makes life better. We shouldn't be looking down on those who want to supply it.

>Most humans enjoy music and art. We want it to exist. It makes life better. We shouldn't be looking down on those who want to supply it.

Of course I agree with all your desires. I'm just saying how capitalism works in reality. You can pass moral judgements all you want, but capitalism doesn't care how many people want something. In capitalism, it's all about profit over time.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#65

Post by WalterBright »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #54
WalterBright wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working at creating value is what matters, not just working hard.

Can you explain this? Value for whom? The business owner, the customer, yourself? Can you please give an example?

Value for the person you're going to trade it to.

If you work hard to make a mud pie, you've created no value, and nobody will want it.

If you work hard to make an apple pie, people will be willing to give you money for it, because you created something of value to them.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#66

Post by rpmisms »

foobarian wrote: post #61
itronitron wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father had a similar childhood. Grew up in a 3 bedroom cabin that his father built, shared a bedroom with his 3 brothers, and spent a lot of his childhood running around the woods with a rifle and trapping animals to sell furs. Despite having a very successful career, he refers to this time in his life as 'when we were wealthy'.

You're not kidding. Not even a billionaire's kids today could run around the woods with rifles and do the same.

They absolutely could, and still do in Appalachia. The real world still exists, you just have to look a little harder...

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#68

Post by _heimdall »

Loughla wrote: post #49
ronnier wrote: post #6

> The Man in Black grew up in Dyess, Arkansas, in a community of poor farmers working government land. Similar. I grew up in Arkansas for 6 years of my childhood working on a turkey farm until I was 11~. Hard work ,7 days a week for 6 years working with turkeys and cattle. Something is lost today by most kids being removed from hard work, I think. Defiantly brings a different perspective going from that to working in…

I can tell you, my children's lives are IMMENSELY better not having to do hard labor. My childhood was spent on a farm, we all worked or we didn't eat. It was fucking miserable. I wouldn't wish that on anyone who doesn't want it.

To be fair, there's a lot of room between having to work to eat and learning what hard work is.

A childhood of workin outside, whether that's working with animals or working in the soil, teaches entirely different lessons than living in video games or social media and eating food that magically shows up on grocery store shelves.

I obviously don't know you or your children and am picking on video games and social media only in a general example of many children's common experiences today.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#69

Post by soulofmischief »

jmspring wrote: post #57
acjohnson55 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that the generations who worked through childhood are any better on average. There are folks who turned that into habits that unlocked productivity and happiness in life. There are others who just got exploited. To me, what's important is building the intuition for the connection between practice and achievement, which is a subtly different thing. It's not hard work for…

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

That's because inflation, a generally increasing cost of living, and generational knowledge around how exploitative modern capitalism can be.

The whole "kids should work harder and enjoy it" take is entirely Western. Kids are working very hard in other parts of the world, for pennies, no health care, and have next to zero economic mobility. Kids should be willing to work for their own benefit, to enrich their own life, but that is not what we see in practice. Kids work to survive.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#70

Post by wharvle »

jmspring wrote: post #57
acjohnson55 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that the generations who worked through childhood are any better on average. There are folks who turned that into habits that unlocked productivity and happiness in life. There are others who just got exploited. To me, what's important is building the intuition for the connection between practice and achievement, which is a subtly different thing. It's not hard work for…

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

If they’re sometimes getting those things, maybe they should expect them.

I think, to some extent, there’s been a broadening of the set of people clued in that the connection between hard work and money isn’t just weak, but often nonexistent.

You don’t get real money doing farm work 7 days a week, after all. Real work, but not real money.

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