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Where Johnny Cash came from

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Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#51

Post by pjmorris »

lordnacho wrote: post #48
jdewerd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents infected me with the same disease -- an intense conviction in the nobility and virtue of individual hard work -- and it led me to a terrible place, the physical sciences, where I received a harsh lesson in the nature of capitalism. It's not about creating value, it's about capturing value. In a low-leverage situation, when everyone works hard you are simply paid less. Surplus is captured through ownership…

"It works on my machine" - apt comparison for the software crowd. I grew up in a restaurant, but my main lesson from it was that I didn't want to be forced to do that kind of work. People have praised me for my work ethic, but I'm not sure it came from doing anything at the restaurant, it came from NOT wanting to do anything at the restaurant.

About two weeks in to my first job, as a dishwasher, I told myself that I didn't want to do this for the next forty years. I stayed in restaurants another ~five years and was known as a hard worker, but that desire is what drove me to college and to a career.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#53

Post by WalterBright »

diob wrote: post #40
jdewerd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents infected me with the same disease -- an intense conviction in the nobility and virtue of individual hard work -- and it led me to a terrible place, the physical sciences, where I received a harsh lesson in the nature of capitalism. It's not about creating value, it's about capturing value. In a low-leverage situation, when everyone works hard you are simply paid less. Surplus is captured through ownership…

Thank god, I'm also well off and work hard. But I know plenty who work hard and aren't. Luck is a big factor.

Working at creating value is what matters, not just working hard.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#54

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

WalterBright wrote: post #53
diob wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god, I'm also well off and work hard. But I know plenty who work hard and aren't. Luck is a big factor.

Working at creating value is what matters, not just working hard.

Can you explain this? Value for whom? The business owner, the customer, yourself? Can you please give an example?

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#55

Post by bsder »

chrisco255 wrote: post #31
bsder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something is lost today by most kids being removed from hard work, I think. I'm not sure I agree. The work was hard and you didn't get anywhere . You worked the farm, the mill, the mine, etc. just like your father did and his father did. You didn't get rich. You didn't even get comfortable. You were still poor, and your children were going to remain poor. The window where labor unions made mill, mine, and factory j…

> The window where labor unions made mill, mine, and factory jobs something livable was quite short--1960 to 1980, roughly. I'm sorry, what? What do you think 2023 mills, mines, and factories look like in the United States? Here's a tour of a wheat mill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYP6AnNQjNo Here's a modern coal mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwo3slH1wsk And here's a modern factory: https://www.youtube.c…

However, those quite a bit better places only employ a small fraction of the number of people of yore and require quite a bit more education thanks to automation.

For example: the Natrona Heights steel mill now employs roughly 100 people on a shift vs when it employed somewhere between 5000-10000 on a shift. Automation killed a ton of employment. Those are the kind of jobs I am talking about.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to bring all those jobs back. They were terrible jobs.

However, claiming that working those kinds of jobs somehow makes people better is quite suspect, at best.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#56

Post by shove »

Prior to reading this, my only insight into Cash’s upbringing had been the recording from Folsom Prison in which the warden does a cringe-inducing introduction of Ray Cash, Johnny’s father.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#57

Post by jmspring »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #46
ronnier wrote: post #6

> The Man in Black grew up in Dyess, Arkansas, in a community of poor farmers working government land. Similar. I grew up in Arkansas for 6 years of my childhood working on a turkey farm until I was 11~. Hard work ,7 days a week for 6 years working with turkeys and cattle. Something is lost today by most kids being removed from hard work, I think. Defiantly brings a different perspective going from that to working in…

I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that the generations who worked through childhood are any better on average. There are folks who turned that into habits that unlocked productivity and happiness in life. There are others who just got exploited. To me, what's important is building the intuition for the connection between practice and achievement, which is a subtly different thing. It's not hard work for…

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#58

Post by mcmoor »

Loughla wrote: post #49
ronnier wrote: post #6

> The Man in Black grew up in Dyess, Arkansas, in a community of poor farmers working government land. Similar. I grew up in Arkansas for 6 years of my childhood working on a turkey farm until I was 11~. Hard work ,7 days a week for 6 years working with turkeys and cattle. Something is lost today by most kids being removed from hard work, I think. Defiantly brings a different perspective going from that to working in…

I can tell you, my children's lives are IMMENSELY better not having to do hard labor. My childhood was spent on a farm, we all worked or we didn't eat. It was fucking miserable. I wouldn't wish that on anyone who doesn't want it.

Can it be argued that work is miserable for everyone, including children? Current trends doesn't only seek to abolish child worker, it aims to free it from everyone.

Of course, whether it'd actually be better for everyone or it'd actually be stable is another can of worm entirely.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#59

Post by trust_bt_verify »

jmspring wrote: post #57
acjohnson55 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that the generations who worked through childhood are any better on average. There are folks who turned that into habits that unlocked productivity and happiness in life. There are others who just got exploited. To me, what's important is building the intuition for the connection between practice and achievement, which is a subtly different thing. It's not hard work for…

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

Can you show that this behavior did not exist in previous generations? I saw plenty of that with gen-x working its way through the lower rungs of the workforce.

Re: Where Johnny Cash came from

#60

Post by lemonberry »

jmspring wrote: post #57
acjohnson55 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any evidence to indicate that the generations who worked through childhood are any better on average. There are folks who turned that into habits that unlocked productivity and happiness in life. There are others who just got exploited. To me, what's important is building the intuition for the connection between practice and achievement, which is a subtly different thing. It's not hard work for…

I disagree to a point. We see millenials/Gen-Z expecting promotions and large salaries for little to no work history and at most normal productivity. There is definitely a connection missed between effort and reward.

We also see CEOs getting paid a ridiculous amount of money. They get incredible bonuses even when their companies underperform. The golden parachute is real. It's easier to blame the kids, but they see many examples from the top. Not to mention how their children - the nepokids - are being rewarded by their proximity to power and a network they had no hand in building.
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